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"Bob Crantz" wrote in message

A mackeral!

I hear it stings like hell... but won't leave a mark!!?

CM

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:47:18 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:01:21 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

November 8, 1999

Hidden Harbour Marina
4370 Carraway Place
Port of Sanford
Sanford, FL 32771

Dear Mr. Borum:

"would be considered as a "mobile gantry crane."

In other words, it is NOT a mobile gantry crane, but they treat it as
if it was one, since they don't have any seperate rules that only
pertain to a Travelift Hoist.

If it is considered as a mobile gantry crane, how could you then conclude
it
isn't?

That's why the guy had to write for a clarification in the first
place.

Is a Ford F250 pick-up truck a "passenger car"?

In Connecticut, there is a parkway where trucks and commercial vehicles
are not
allowed. The one loophole is that if you have a pick-up truck that you use
either exclusively or partly for non-commercial use, you may apply for a
"combination registration" instead of a commercial registration. What that
means
is that if you are not carrying a commercial load, or displaying
commercial
lettering on the sides, you may drive on the parkway, and you will be
"considered" as a passenger vehicle. Your truck will not actually BE a
passenger vehicle, you will still be driving that same crappy Ford TRUCK.
It
will just be considered to be the same type of vehicle as far as
applicable
laws.

A Ford truck is a vehicle and it can carry passengers.

It is a passenger vehicle, especially so because it can perform in that
capacity.

Cars, such as taxis aren't allowed on the Merritt, Southern State, Sagtikos,
Sunken Meadow, Northern or any other parkway.

Yet a taxi is a passenger vehicle.

It's the fact that a vehicle is commercial that prohibits it from the
parkways. In days of yore, trucks were almost exclusively commercial
vehicles.

Your analogy is not applicable to travel lift cranes.

That is because they can not travel on the parkway. They are not registered
motor vehicles. Even if one was registered, it could not maintain minimum
speed, which is limited by the hull speed of the boat it is carrying.

Are ambulances rushing anemic patients for iron infusion therapy allowed on
the parkway?

Amen!

Commodore Joe Redcloud

"Commode Joe " wrote
Is a Ford F250 pick-up truck a "passenger car"?

In Connecticut, there is a parkway where trucks and commercial
vehicles are not
allowed. The one loophole is that if you have a pick-up truck
that you use
either exclusively or partly for non-commercial use, you may
apply for a
"combination registration" instead of a commercial
registration. What that means
is that if you are not carrying a commercial load, or
displaying commercial
lettering on the sides, you may drive on the parkway, and you
will be
"considered" as a passenger vehicle. Your truck will not
actually BE a
passenger vehicle, you will still be driving that same crappy
Ford TRUCK. It
will just be considered to be the same type of vehicle as far
as applicable
laws.

Commode Joe

WTF are you babbling about? Just because you call it a Travel
Lift Hoist Non Crane, doesn't make it any less of a crane than a
Manitowoc 4200.

Thom said so. So there!

Scotty

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:32:13 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:47:18 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:01:21 GMT, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:

November 8, 1999

Hidden Harbour Marina
4370 Carraway Place
Port of Sanford
Sanford, FL 32771

Dear Mr. Borum:

"would be considered as a "mobile gantry crane."

In other words, it is NOT a mobile gantry crane, but they treat it
as
if it was one, since they don't have any seperate rules that only
pertain to a Travelift Hoist.

If it is considered as a mobile gantry crane, how could you then
conclude
it
isn't?

That's why the guy had to write for a clarification in the first
place.

Is a Ford F250 pick-up truck a "passenger car"?

In Connecticut, there is a parkway where trucks and commercial vehicles
are not
allowed. The one loophole is that if you have a pick-up truck that you
use
either exclusively or partly for non-commercial use, you may apply for
a
"combination registration" instead of a commercial registration. What
that
means
is that if you are not carrying a commercial load, or displaying
commercial
lettering on the sides, you may drive on the parkway, and you will be
"considered" as a passenger vehicle. Your truck will not actually BE a
passenger vehicle, you will still be driving that same crappy Ford
TRUCK.
It
will just be considered to be the same type of vehicle as far as
applicable
laws.

A Ford truck is a vehicle and it can carry passengers.

It is a passenger vehicle, especially so because it can perform in that
capacity.

Cars, such as taxis aren't allowed on the Merritt, Southern State,
Sagtikos,
Sunken Meadow, Northern or any other parkway.

Yet a taxi is a passenger vehicle.

It's the fact that a vehicle is commercial that prohibits it from the
parkways. In days of yore, trucks were almost exclusively commercial
vehicles.

Your analogy is not applicable to travel lift cranes.

That is because they can not travel on the parkway. They are not
registered
motor vehicles. Even if one was registered, it could not maintain minimum
speed, which is limited by the hull speed of the boat it is carrying.

Are ambulances rushing anemic patients for iron infusion therapy allowed
on
the parkway?

Amen!

Using your reasoning, a cat is a dog, and there is no way around it.

The "reasoning" I used was yours, to show the illogical outcome of your
analogy. It's disproof by absurdity.

Yes, your reasoning does conclude a cat is a dog.

As far as OSHA goes, there is no reasoning. It's definition or decree.

A Marine Travelift may be "considered" as a crane by OSHA, but that does
not
make it a crane. It just means they apply the same rules to it. BIG
difference.

OK then, just what are the defining charateristics of a crane?

1. Overhead lifting pulley or fulcrum.
2. Cantilevered lifting point or horizontal beam with lifting point.
3. Cantilevered lifting arm pivots about a vertical axis.
4. Horizontal beam lifting point moves with respect to the ground.

A hoist is the mechanism which lifts, but does in include the structure
supporting the hoist. A crane has a hoist, but the hoist alone is not
complete enough to define the crane.

If you can refute this with factual information, go ahead.

The travel lift is of the category crane. It is a crane.

A dog is a mammal.
A cat is a mammal.
Both dogs and cats are mammals.
A dog is not a cat.

A travel lift is a crane.
A trolley boom is a crane.
Both travel lifts and trolley boom are cranes.
A travel lift is not a trolley boom.

Taxonomy (from Greek verb tassein = "to classify" and nomos = law, science,
cf "economy") may refer to:

the science of classification (see alpha taxonomy)
a classification
Initially taxonomy was only the science of classifying living organisms, but
later the word was applied in a wider sense, and may also refer to either a
classification of things, or the principles underlying the classification.
Almost anything, animate objects, inanimate objects, places, and events, may
be classified according to some taxonomic scheme.

Taxonomies are frequently hierarchical in structure. However taxonomy may
also refer to relationship schemes other than hierarchies, such as network
structures. Other taxonomies may include single children with multi-parents,
for example, "Car" might appear with both parents "Vehicle" and "Steel
Mechanisms". A taxonomy might also be a simple organization of objects into
groups, or even an alphabetical list. In current usage within "Knowledge
Management", taxonomies are seen as slightly less broad than ontologies.

Mathematically, a hierarchical taxonomy is a tree structure of
classifications for a given set of objects. At the top of this structure is
a single classification, the root node, that applies to all objects. Nodes
below this root are more specific classifications that apply to subsets of
the total set of classified objects. So for instance in common schemes of
scientific classification of organisms, the root is the Organism (as this
applies to all living things, it is implied rather than stated explicitly).
Below this are the Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order, Family, Genus, and
Species, with various other ranks sometimes inserted.

Some have argued that the human mind naturally organizes its knowledge of
the world into such systems. This view is often based on the epistemology of
Immanuel Kant. Anthropologists have observed that taxonomies are generally
embedded in local cultural and social systems, and serve various social
functions. Perhaps the most well-known and influential study of folk
taxonomies is Émile Durkheim's The Elementary Forms of Religious Life. The
theories of Kant and Durkheim also influenced Claude Lévi-Strauss, the
founder of anthropological structuralism. Lévi-Strauss wrote two important
books on taxonomies: Totemism and The Savage Mind.

Such taxonomies as those analyzed by Durkheim and Lévi-Strauss are sometimes
called folk taxonomies to distinguish them from scientific taxonomies that
claim to be disembedded from social relations and thus objective and
universal.

A recent neologism, folksonomy, should not be confused with Folk Taxonomy
(though it is obviously a contraction of the two words). Those who support
scientific taxonomies have recently criticized folksonomies by dubbing them
fauxonomies.

The phrase enterprise taxonomy is used in business to describe a very
limited form of taxonomy used only within one organization.

The field of solving or best-fitting of numerical equations that
characterize all measurable quantities of a set of objects is called cluster
analysis; this is a form of taxonomy called numerical taxonomy or
taximetrics.

Commodore Joe Redcloud

Pretty impressive for a pig farmer.
S.

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
: WoW! What a beating !
:
: Even Bob was smart enough to bow out of this
one.
:
: Scotty, knows his cranes.
:

WoW! What a beating !

Even Bob was smart enough to bow out of this one.

Scotty, knows his cranes.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
k.net...

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 22:32:13 GMT, "Bob Crantz"

wrote:

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in
message
.. .
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:47:18 GMT, "Bob Crantz"

wrote:

"Commodore Joe Redcloud©" wrote in
message
.. .
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 16:01:21 GMT, "Bob Crantz"

wrote:

November 8, 1999

Hidden Harbour Marina
4370 Carraway Place
Port of Sanford
Sanford, FL 32771

Dear Mr. Borum:

"would be considered as a "mobile gantry crane."

In other words, it is NOT a mobile gantry crane, but
they treat it
as
if it was one, since they don't have any seperate rules
that only
pertain to a Travelift Hoist.

If it is considered as a mobile gantry crane, how could
you then
conclude
it
isn't?

That's why the guy had to write for a clarification in
the first
place.

Is a Ford F250 pick-up truck a "passenger car"?

In Connecticut, there is a parkway where trucks and
commercial vehicles
are not
allowed. The one loophole is that if you have a pick-up
truck that you
use
either exclusively or partly for non-commercial use, you
may apply for
a
"combination registration" instead of a commercial
registration. What
that
means
is that if you are not carrying a commercial load, or
displaying
commercial
lettering on the sides, you may drive on the parkway, and
you will be
"considered" as a passenger vehicle. Your truck will not
actually BE a
passenger vehicle, you will still be driving that same
crappy Ford
TRUCK.
It
will just be considered to be the same type of vehicle as
far as
applicable
laws.

A Ford truck is a vehicle and it can carry passengers.

It is a passenger vehicle, especially so because it can
perform in that
capacity.

Cars, such as taxis aren't allowed on the Merritt, Southern
State,
Sagtikos,
Sunken Meadow, Northern or any other parkway.

Yet a taxi is a passenger vehicle.

It's the fact that a vehicle is commercial that prohibits it
from the
parkways. In days of yore, trucks were almost exclusively
commercial
vehicles.

Your analogy is not applicable to travel lift cranes.

That is because they can not travel on the parkway. They are
not
registered
motor vehicles. Even if one was registered, it could not
maintain minimum
speed, which is limited by the hull speed of the boat it is
carrying.

Are ambulances rushing anemic patients for iron infusion
therapy allowed
on
the parkway?

Amen!

Using your reasoning, a cat is a dog, and there is no way
around it.

The "reasoning" I used was yours, to show the illogical outcome
of your
analogy. It's disproof by absurdity.

Yes, your reasoning does conclude a cat is a dog.

As far as OSHA goes, there is no reasoning. It's definition or
decree.

A Marine Travelift may be "considered" as a crane by OSHA,
but that does
not
make it a crane. It just means they apply the same rules to
it. BIG
difference.

OK then, just what are the defining charateristics of a crane?

1. Overhead lifting pulley or fulcrum.
2. Cantilevered lifting point or horizontal beam with lifting
point.
3. Cantilevered lifting arm pivots about a vertical axis.
4. Horizontal beam lifting point moves with respect to the
ground.

A hoist is the mechanism which lifts, but does in include the
structure
supporting the hoist. A crane has a hoist, but the hoist alone
is not
complete enough to define the crane.

If you can refute this with factual information, go ahead.

The travel lift is of the category crane. It is a crane.

A dog is a mammal.
A cat is a mammal.
Both dogs and cats are mammals.
A dog is not a cat.

A travel lift is a crane.
A trolley boom is a crane.
Both travel lifts and trolley boom are cranes.
A travel lift is not a trolley boom.

Taxonomy (from Greek verb tassein = "to classify" and nomos =
law, science,
cf "economy") may refer to:

the science of classification (see alpha taxonomy)
a classification
Initially taxonomy was only the science of classifying living
organisms, but
later the word was applied in a wider sense, and may also refer
to either a
classification of things, or the principles underlying the
classification.
Almost anything, animate objects, inanimate objects, places,
and events, may
be classified according to some taxonomic scheme.

Taxonomies are frequently hierarchical in structure. However
taxonomy may
also refer to relationship schemes other than hierarchies, such
as network
structures. Other taxonomies may include single children with
multi-parents,
for example, "Car" might appear with both parents "Vehicle" and
"Steel
Mechanisms". A taxonomy might also be a simple organization of
objects into
groups, or even an alphabetical list. In current usage within
"Knowledge
Management", taxonomies are seen as slightly less broad than
ontologies.

Mathematically, a hierarchical taxonomy is a tree structure of
classifications for a given set of objects. At the top of this
structure is
a single classification, the root node, that applies to all
objects. Nodes
below this root are more specific classifications that apply to
subsets of
the total set of classified objects. So for instance in common
schemes of
scientific classification of organisms, the root is the
Organism (as this
applies to all living things, it is implied rather than stated
explicitly).
Below this are the Domain, Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order,
Family, Genus, and
Species, with various other ranks sometimes inserted.

Some have argued that the human mind naturally organizes its
knowledge of
the world into such systems. This view is often based on the
epistemology of
Immanuel Kant. Anthropologists have observed that taxonomies
are generally
embedded in local cultural and social systems, and serve
various social
functions. Perhaps the most well-known and influential study of
folk
taxonomies is Émile Durkheim's The Elementary Forms of
Religious Life. The
theories of Kant and Durkheim also influenced Claude
Lévi-Strauss, the
founder of anthropological structuralism. Lévi-Strauss wrote
two important
books on taxonomies: Totemism and The Savage Mind.

Such taxonomies as those analyzed by Durkheim and Lévi-Strauss
are sometimes
called folk taxonomies to distinguish them from scientific
taxonomies that
claim to be disembedded from social relations and thus
objective and
universal.

A recent neologism, folksonomy, should not be confused with
Folk Taxonomy
(though it is obviously a contraction of the two words). Those
who support
scientific taxonomies have recently criticized folksonomies by
dubbing them
fauxonomies.

The phrase enterprise taxonomy is used in business to describe
a very
limited form of taxonomy used only within one organization.

The field of solving or best-fitting of numerical equations
that
characterize all measurable quantities of a set of objects is
called cluster
analysis; this is a form of taxonomy called numerical taxonomy
or
taximetrics.

Commodore Joe Redcloud

Oink!

"NotPony" wrote in message
news:G8kkf.508$5V1.85@trnddc02...
Pretty impressive for a pig farmer.
S.

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
: WoW! What a beating !
:
: Even Bob was smart enough to bow out of this
one.
:
: Scotty, knows his cranes.
:

Crappie,

Is that a "Holy Mackeral" you are slapping him with:^)

http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomPage

WTF are you babbling about? Just because you call it a Travel
Lift Hoist Non Crane, doesn't make it any less of a crane than a
Manitowoc 4200.

One last time. All yards call them travellifts. That's what they're
called. Nobody calls them a crane because cranes are used in yards for
other work. That doesn't mean the TL isn't a crane, just that no one
call in one in the biz.

RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
WTF are you babbling about? Just because you call it a Travel
Lift Hoist Non Crane, doesn't make it any less of a crane than
a
Manitowoc 4200.

That doesn't mean the TL isn't a crane,

Well done Bob, admitting defeat is hard, but you're better off
for it. Now, could you fart out commode joe and splain it to him?

Scotty, another win!