In article hYLgf.158916$Io.90437@clgrps13,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.

No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20.... he was one of those whiny
sailors... you know... like Ganz! Going on and on about PHRF and windward
ability. A text book sailor....

Sounds to me like you're the winning whiner.

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable unless you have
either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't mind setting up a more
complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron, I've sailed in company with a Halman
and there's no way in heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.

More bs. Gee, you're great at it!

They look okay... but I don't have any practical experience with either of
them. I do however have experience with a Cal 20..... it sucks! I've sailed
them and have been left with less than a good impression of the vessel's
abilities.

No you don't.

Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill. The Cal 20 and Catalina 22 I regularly trounced
both were in a quandary as to how I managed it. No it wasn't the inboard.
There was a 17 ft fin keeler that always beat the Cal 20.

There's no comparison between the Cal and the Cat. More proof that you
don't know what you're talking about.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt.Mooron wrote:
Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html



The Cal 20 is a ridiculous choice. It's all cockpit and no cabin. It
performs poorly in heavy air and it is no easier to step the mast than on a
Nordica 16 or Nordica 20.

The Nordica 20 is one of the few boats that has an inboard diesel, can be
ramp launched and will sleep 4 in comfort with a built in head , galley and
has only a 2.5ft draft. It will out perform a Cal 20 anyday as I have proven
on many occasions. You can actually walk around the deck of a Nordica 20 and
it has life lines all around. The 2 cylinder diesel can be hand cranked,
there is actual plumbing with a sink and stove inside. The bunks are 8 feet.
The storage is excellent.

Fairly modern keel design... what a laugh! The Cal 20 is a low end pig in a
poke.

CM


There is a huge racing fleet of Cal 20s up here in the PNW. The class
racing is very competitive. Lots of them cruise in the summer. Not
many are trailer sailed though. Cheap, honest fun.

Capt.Mooron wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing

on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.



I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific. A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic. They are cheap and
worthless as the asking price shows!



Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???


WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!


That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom


You suppose wrong... then again that's no surprise.


also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K,


You dipstick... they have been out of production since 1985 and average at
about 7K Cdn

whereas you can get a Cal

20 that is near perfect for under $2K.


Because it's a POS!!!

The Cal will kick your butt all

over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.


I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler. Those Cal 20s
suck backwash. They are wet, sail poorly and are a poor choice for anything
but a day sail.



Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.


It's a full keel cut-away forefoot.... did you even go to the site I
indicated?


The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.


What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....


You're GAY!!


CM


Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed. Check out :
http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
One has been sailed across the pacific (highly tricked)

In article XvSgf.579668$tl2.187708@pd7tw3no,
Gary wrote:
There is a huge racing fleet of Cal 20s up here in the PNW. The class
racing is very competitive. Lots of them cruise in the summer. Not
many are trailer sailed though. Cheap, honest fun.

Where in the PNW? Near Thom?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article BMSgf.575467$1i.244687@pd7tw2no,
Gary wrote:
Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed. Check out :
http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
One has been sailed across the pacific (highly tricked)

I tried to tell him, but he wouldn't listen.




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.


Capt.Mooron wrote:
No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20....

After tying a bucket to his keel? Actually it would probably
take 2 buckets...


Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.


That's possible, we beat a number of bigger & theoretically
faster boats in our lowly Hunter 19.

It's also possible there was something wrong with the boat.
Have you sailed against more than one Cal 20? Any one-design
fleets? Before making such a sweeping condemnation (even if
it does have a fin keel) you should check out more than a
single one.

Not that the Cal 20 is the boat of the century, but they're OK.



Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill.

Very likely, and that's why I suggest there might have been
something wrong with that particular boat. Cal 20s are just
plain not as slow as you say.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Gary" wrote in message

Whoa, fairly hostile and mis-informed.

When replying to Ganz... I never allow facts to confuse the truth! :-)

Honestly Gary... when debating anything with Jon he gets temperamental and
throws tantrums like a child...... he has issues and it's useless to stick
to facts, utilize logic or rational. I suggest - Don't stick to the facts...
Just stick it to Ganz!

He reports me to my ISP then when I finally get back on.... follows me
around the newsgroup like a stalker.

Seriously.. why would you desire to undertake a debate with someone who does
nothing but insult you? Yet Ganz refuses to killfile me. Why is that?

CM

"DSK" wrote in message

It's also possible there was something wrong with the boat. Have you
sailed against more than one Cal 20?


It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how could
you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or factual?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.

CM

Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how could
you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

DSK

Jonathan Ganz wrote:
In article XvSgf.579668$tl2.187708@pd7tw3no,
Gary wrote:

There is a huge racing fleet of Cal 20s up here in the PNW. The class
racing is very competitive. Lots of them cruise in the summer. Not
many are trailer sailed though. Cheap, honest fun.


Where in the PNW? Near Thom?

Victoria, where is Thom?