In article 7hxgf.158749$Io.57567@clgrps13,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
Check the Nordica 20

http://www.nordicaboats.com/

CM


"Capri" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi awhile ago I sold my Westsail 32, after many long years of fine
service. I just can't afford the slip fees any longer. I held on as
long as I could but when they decided to turn our marina into a condo
and private marina it was time to sell. Anyway, It's really hard being
without a boat, so I have been thinking about a trailerable sailboat as
there is plenty of room next to the house to store the boat on a
trailer. Something in the 18-20' range. My offshore days are in the
past so she will pretty much spend her time on the ICW and the St Johns
River with an occasional venture offshore if the weather is
exceptional. A boat that is large enough to have a small cabin yet
small enough for one man to rig. Does anyone know where I might start
my search? what boats I might start looking at?

I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Dave wrote:
Dunno. Up here the first seems to be going strong. But the water quality has
been improving for some time.

OK let's see you drink some.

DSK

Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html


The Cal 20 is a ridiculous choice. It's all cockpit and no cabin. It
performs poorly in heavy air and it is no easier to step the mast than on a
Nordica 16 or Nordica 20.

The Nordica 20 is one of the few boats that has an inboard diesel, can be
ramp launched and will sleep 4 in comfort with a built in head , galley and
has only a 2.5ft draft. It will out perform a Cal 20 anyday as I have proven
on many occasions. You can actually walk around the deck of a Nordica 20 and
it has life lines all around. The 2 cylinder diesel can be hand cranked,
there is actual plumbing with a sink and stove inside. The bunks are 8 feet.
The storage is excellent.

Fairly modern keel design... what a laugh! The Cal 20 is a low end pig in a
poke.

CM

In article TdKgf.207483$ir4.176733@edtnps90,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
I would think a bulb-like or fin keel would be more appropriate for
what you're looking for. The Cal, for example, has a fairly modern
keel design, given how long ago it was designed.

http://www.sealsspars.com/classy20footer.html


The Cal 20 is a ridiculous choice. It's all cockpit and no cabin. It
performs poorly in heavy air and it is no easier to step the mast than on a
Nordica 16 or Nordica 20.

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing
on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.

I can't speak to the comparison of stepping the mast with a Nordica,
but it's pretty easy to do if you plan it well. I put it up on the
water with one other person, and on the hard it would be easier.

The Nordica 20 is one of the few boats that has an inboard diesel, can be
ramp launched and will sleep 4 in comfort with a built in head , galley and
has only a 2.5ft draft. It will out perform a Cal 20 anyday as I have proven
on many occasions. You can actually walk around the deck of a Nordica 20 and
it has life lines all around. The 2 cylinder diesel can be hand cranked,
there is actual plumbing with a sink and stove inside. The bunks are 8 feet.
The storage is excellent.

Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat??? That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom
also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K, whereas you can get a Cal
20 that is near perfect for under $2K. The Cal will kick your butt all
over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.

Fairly modern keel design... what a laugh! The Cal 20 is a low end pig in a
poke.

Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.

The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.

Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing
on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.


I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific. A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic. They are cheap and
worthless as the asking price shows!


Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???

WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!

That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom

You suppose wrong... then again that's no surprise.

also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K,

You dipstick... they have been out of production since 1985 and average at
about 7K Cdn

whereas you can get a Cal
20 that is near perfect for under $2K.

Because it's a POS!!!

The Cal will kick your butt all
over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.

I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler. Those Cal 20s
suck backwash. They are wet, sail poorly and are a poor choice for anything
but a day sail.


Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.

It's a full keel cut-away forefoot.... did you even go to the site I
indicated?


The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.

What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....

You're GAY!!


CM

Dave wrote:
I don't drink salt water.

That's a convenient excuse.

How about fresh water with some arsenic & PCB's? Yummy!

DSK

In article Y0Lgf.207490$ir4.172254@edtnps90,
Capt.Mooron wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

You know nothing about the Cal, obviously. It was designed for sailing
on the SF bay, and handles heavy air with out a problem. It's a
relatively dry boat for its size and has a very decent interior, with,
as I said room for three if necessary. Cals have crossed the Pacific
more than a few times.

I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific. A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic. They are cheap and
worthless as the asking price shows!

I guess John Vigor is wrong...

Bull****. I bet you haven't but claim you did.

Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???

WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!

That's a lot for a 20 ft boat!

That's crazy. I suppose the Nordica 20 has 6 foot headroom

You suppose wrong... then again that's no surprise.

But, it's big enough for a jerk like you! Your ego is at least that
big.

also. New ones are wildly expensive... $15K,

You dipstick... they have been out of production since 1985 and average at
about 7K Cdn

That's still wildly more than a Cal 20.

whereas you can get a Cal
20 that is near perfect for under $2K.

Because it's a POS!!!

You're an expert on POS. I defer to you.

The Cal will kick your butt all
over the bay and back. You wouldn't stand a chance.

I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler. Those Cal 20s
suck backwash. They are wet, sail poorly and are a poor choice for anything
but a day sail.

BS. You know nothing about Cals.

Like the Nordica has a modern one.... right, sure.

It's a full keel cut-away forefoot.... did you even go to the site I
indicated?

It's not a modern design. Sorry.

The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.

What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20

Sure, whatever you say.

Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....

You're GAY!!

Still angry at being thrown off Usenet I see. What did you do that
your ISP tossed you? Please tell us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt.Mooron wrote:
I've sailed them... they suck and not one Cal 20 has crossed the Pacific

Depends on how you define. A few have sailed to Hawaii,
which is offically termed a TransPac by many.


... A
Nordica 20 though has crossed the North Atlantic.

So has at least one Cal 20, there was a magazine article
about it. 2 college kids, one of whom later went on record
describing the trip as "crazy" and saying he'd never do it
again.

But it's possible, because it's been done.



Why the heck would I want the weight of an inboard engine on a 20 foot
boat???


WTF are you on about.... it's a 150 lb engine!! It's not like you're
frickin' car-topping you IDIOT!


Yep

Depnds on the boat. A Cal 20 is not all that light weight,
it could easily benefit from an inboard.





I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler.

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They
will plane nicely.


The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.


hmm, that's a bit of an exaggeration IMHO


What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by
a fin keel just before you were born, or something??


Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....


You're GAY!!


Why don't you two get a room?

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable
unless you have either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't
mind setting up a more complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron,
I've sailed in company with a Halman and there's no way in
heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

BTW how about one of these
http://www.selectyachts.co.uk/crabbershome.asp?ArtID=5

http://www.boatshow.com/CornishShrimper.html

This is one of the boats that Navvie (remember him?)
insisted should be considered in his wager that he could
name a more seaworthy 15 footer...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.

No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20.... he was one of those whiny
sailors... you know... like Ganz! Going on and on about PHRF and windward
ability. A text book sailor....

OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by a fin keel
just before you were born, or something??


Fin Keelers are okay... if you can't get a real sailboat! :-)


The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable unless you have
either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't mind setting up a more
complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron, I've sailed in company with a Halman
and there's no way in heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.

BTW how about one of these
http://www.selectyachts.co.uk/crabbershome.asp?ArtID=5

http://www.boatshow.com/CornishShrimper.html

This is one of the boats that Navvie (remember him?) insisted should be
considered in his wager that he could name a more seaworthy 15 footer...

They look okay... but I don't have any practical experience with either of
them. I do however have experience with a Cal 20..... it sucks! I've sailed
them and have been left with less than a good impression of the vessel's
abilities.

Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill. The Cal 20 and Catalina 22 I regularly trounced
both were in a quandary as to how I managed it. No it wasn't the inboard.
There was a 17 ft fin keeler that always beat the Cal 20.

There was even the time that I sailed through the fleet on the Wednesday
Night Race [I wasn't in the race that night and yes going in their
direction] ... towing a 10ft inflatable dinghy with a 15hp outboard with my
30 footer. Now that settled a lot of conjectures as to my vessel's
abilities.

CM

In article ,
DSK wrote:
Depnds on the boat. A Cal 20 is not all that light weight,
it could easily benefit from an inboard.

Actually, it has a well for an "inboard" outboard. Personally, I
didn't like it and closed it up. You have to slow the boat to almost
zero to pull the outboard out of the well without getting soaked. A
transom mount is much better.

I just told you I beat Cal 20s all the time in a full keeler.

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They
will plane nicely.

Hmmm... never thought of that.

The Cal's keel was way a head of its time. And, it still performs
better than many newer boats.


hmm, that's a bit of an exaggeration IMHO

This is Usenet!!

What a load of desperate CRAP! It's dated, a slug and useless for anything
but short daysails in very protected waters. A MacGregor 19 is a better boat
than your crappy Cal 20


OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by
a fin keel just before you were born, or something??

You should not, definitely not, bring Mooron's mom into the
conversation.

Ok. Now, it's time for you to make a personal attack....
You're GAY!!
Why don't you two get a room?

Sorry, but I prefer my privacy.

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable
unless you have either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't
mind setting up a more complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron,
I've sailed in company with a Halman and there's no way in
heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

The rig isn't really that complicated. Two stays per side, as the
third set don't need to be used. Even the guy I know who worked at the
Cal factory couldn't understand why they did that. The forward stays
just interfere with the jib.



--
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