"DSK" wrote in message

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.

No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20.... he was one of those whiny
sailors... you know... like Ganz! Going on and on about PHRF and windward
ability. A text book sailor....

OK, that's a LOT of an exaggeration. Was your mom scared by a fin keel
just before you were born, or something??


Fin Keelers are okay... if you can't get a real sailboat! :-)


The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable unless you have
either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't mind setting up a more
complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron, I've sailed in company with a Halman
and there's no way in heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.

BTW how about one of these
http://www.selectyachts.co.uk/crabbershome.asp?ArtID=5

http://www.boatshow.com/CornishShrimper.html

This is one of the boats that Navvie (remember him?) insisted should be
considered in his wager that he could name a more seaworthy 15 footer...

They look okay... but I don't have any practical experience with either of
them. I do however have experience with a Cal 20..... it sucks! I've sailed
them and have been left with less than a good impression of the vessel's
abilities.

Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill. The Cal 20 and Catalina 22 I regularly trounced
both were in a quandary as to how I managed it. No it wasn't the inboard.
There was a 17 ft fin keeler that always beat the Cal 20.

There was even the time that I sailed through the fleet on the Wednesday
Night Race [I wasn't in the race that night and yes going in their
direction] ... towing a 10ft inflatable dinghy with a 15hp outboard with my
30 footer. Now that settled a lot of conjectures as to my vessel's
abilities.

CM

In article hYLgf.158916$Io.90437@clgrps13,
Capt.Mooron wrote:
A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.

No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20.... he was one of those whiny
sailors... you know... like Ganz! Going on and on about PHRF and windward
ability. A text book sailor....

Sounds to me like you're the winning whiner.

The Cal 20 is a nice boat, but it's not really trailerable unless you have
either a perfect ramp or a lift, and don't mind setting up a more
complex rig. And I'm sorry Mooron, I've sailed in company with a Halman
and there's no way in heck one of those is going to keep up with a Cal 20.

Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.

More bs. Gee, you're great at it!

They look okay... but I don't have any practical experience with either of
them. I do however have experience with a Cal 20..... it sucks! I've sailed
them and have been left with less than a good impression of the vessel's
abilities.

No you don't.

Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill. The Cal 20 and Catalina 22 I regularly trounced
both were in a quandary as to how I managed it. No it wasn't the inboard.
There was a 17 ft fin keeler that always beat the Cal 20.

There's no comparison between the Cal and the Cat. More proof that you
don't know what you're talking about.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

A 30 footer? Possible. Probably not downwind though. They will plane
nicely.


Capt.Mooron wrote:
No.. I beat him easily with my Nordica 20....

After tying a bucket to his keel? Actually it would probably
take 2 buckets...


Like we've stated here before... it's not the boat ... it's the sailor. I
have easily bested a Cal 20 on many occasions with my Nordica 20.


That's possible, we beat a number of bigger & theoretically
faster boats in our lowly Hunter 19.

It's also possible there was something wrong with the boat.
Have you sailed against more than one Cal 20? Any one-design
fleets? Before making such a sweeping condemnation (even if
it does have a fin keel) you should check out more than a
single one.

Not that the Cal 20 is the boat of the century, but they're OK.



Look Doug... a fin keeler that can be overtaken by a full keeler to windward
is beyond skill sets... it just illustrates a design problem that can't be
compensated for by skill.

Very likely, and that's why I suggest there might have been
something wrong with that particular boat. Cal 20s are just
plain not as slow as you say.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

It's also possible there was something wrong with the boat. Have you
sailed against more than one Cal 20?


It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how could
you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or factual?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.

CM

Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how could
you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how
could you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or
factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Not really... I'm just expected to show a modicum of disdain towards less
capable vessels


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

Correct... Ganz takes himself way too seriously... Bobsprit is a running gag
and he's aware of that.

You seem to forget Ganz's "off the deep end" near rabid attacks from last
year... never mind that Bobsprit has never reported me for calling him Gay!

CM

Like I said, he can't get past his anger. It's pathological.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:LE1hf.128481$S4.78317@edtnps84...

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how
could you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or
factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Not really... I'm just expected to show a modicum of disdain towards less
capable vessels


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

Correct... Ganz takes himself way too seriously... Bobsprit is a running
gag and he's aware of that.

You seem to forget Ganz's "off the deep end" near rabid attacks from last
year... never mind that Bobsprit has never reported me for calling him
Gay!

CM

Mooron can't do anything more than bluster. He's very bitter guy. I'm sorry
for him.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Capt.Mooron wrote:
It was only the one sailed by an "instructor".... but then again how
could you interpret any of my replies to Ganz as serious, truthful or
factual?


Because we know that you really really hate fin keels?

Let's face it.. Ganz is a whiny crybaby with no sense of humour.


Maybe so, maybe not... at least he's not like Boobsie.

DSK