Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Loco was here before you. He used to treat asa as his own e-bay.


"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
The best way to kill this group is a continuous stream of polite
sailing
discussions.


Mooron, were you here when I drove Dr. Armpit into threats that he'd
drive here and kill me and most of the people on my block? He
practically went off the deep end, then we never heard from him again.
He'd been a regular for quite a while. We have some borderline cases
here. Doug, Loco and Jeff take all of this a bit to seriously and I
think I've shaved a few years off their frustrated little lives. Loco
has mentioned again and again how "he'll never forget how I treated him
when he first joined the group!" I actually think I drove Doug to buy a
trawler as he feared buying a sailboat that I'd rip apart. Jeff is
ready to use a chainsaw on his PeePeeQ and is upset that I told
everyone who don't own a 35s5 to kill themselves. I really only meant
Jeff. BTW, did you know that we sailed to Block Island last year and
never went to Port Jeff? The pics I posted we clearly of Mystic and no
one knew, not even the ones who claimed they've sailed here. Hmmmm.

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

This is probably why you can't travel to the US.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:Dalef.124008$yS6.75248@clgrps12...
Bush won the election! CM

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

I'm amazed by how many true Republicans feel that way now. Sure, there are
some rightwingnuts who'll never admit they were wrong, but with a 39%
approval rating, Bushco may even lose some of those when it finally comes
out that Rove/Chumpy revealed Plame to Novak and others.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
One of my favourites was "Lil Stevie Sumner"... Oh and Ganzy after
the
Bush won the election! He was snappin' like a rapid poodle at
everything!


Hey, I was pretty upset when Bush won too. Ironic thing is that now
most people who voted for him feel the same way. Do you know that the
previous owner of the 35s5 asked me (two minutes after meeting) if I
was anti-Bush. When I said "Of course" he said he'd never sell his boat
to a Bush supporter. Scary part...I think he was serious.

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Wauqiez and Jboat, they can't compete with the 35s5 from a design
standpoint.

That's probably true if you're a moron.


Yeah, one of those Mooron's who's 6'3 and wonders why anyone would make
a bunk 6'4 or even 6'6. When my wife saw the Wauqiez sleeping quarters
she laughed. Funny how even premium builders now match many of the
appointments and features of the 35s5...15 years later.
Doug, you sure know boats!

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

The bottom line- Bubbles claims he bought a boat, paying more than 5X
what Scotty paid... and his boat is only slightly bigger, *maybe*
slightly faster (if Bubbles takes sailing lessons)... will be used
less,
and that closer to it's home slip.


WTF has he got to brag about?


You just said it. I have a bigger nicer boat! Who cares about the cost?
Only you!

Thanks!


RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

If there's a LOT of wind, then yes the boat will heel...


Really and truly????
Doug, you're an idiot.

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Swans are
always among the prettiest, most comfortable, and fastest boats in
production.

Doug is such a complete idiot. Comfortable for who? Doing what? You
mean a Swan is more comfortable than a big PDQ? Holy crap.

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Your wife is a 6'3" moron?
S.
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
:: Yeah, one of those Mooron's who's 6'3 and
wonders why anyone would make
: a bunk 6'4 or even 6'6. When my wife saw the
Wauqiez sleeping quarters
: she laughed. Funny how even premium builders now
match many of the
: appointments and features of the 35s5...15 years
later.
: Doug, you sure know boats!
:
: RB
: 35s5
: NY
:

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

Sure, I get what you're saying. If one were sailing on a beam reach, for
example, a straight course would be faster than constantly turning. For up
wind, it's a different story.

Correct--that is what I'm saying. And while some may disagree, and even
obtain good results from sailing an unaltered, straight-line windward
course, what I've described has worked well for me. I've obtained marks
that I'd have missed, requiring another tack, had I just sailed straight.
It's allowed me to cover an opponent better in many cases. And I've been
able to sail consistently higher since I was taught to do so. Following
close races, I've had those who've trailed me ask the following question:
"How is it that you seem to be aiming below my course most of the time, but
end up ahead and to windward of me by the end of the windward leg?????"

The art of pointing, old chap.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"DSK" wrote in message

How about one of the new NYYC 42s? Sweet boat, except for the name of
course.

To be honest I haven't stayed up on new boats at all. I'll do a search and
take a look at it, however.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Wauqiez and Jboat, they can't compete with the 35s5 from a design
standpoint.

That's probably true if you're a moron.


Yeah, one of those Mooron's who's 6'3 and wonders why anyone would make
a bunk 6'4 or even 6'6. When my wife saw the Wauqiez sleeping quarters
she laughed.

Interesting how you seem stuck on berth length as the primary criteria in
selecting a boat. Then again, if one uses his boat as a dockside condo, I
can understand your reasoning. Personally I'll put up with quite a bit of
inconvenience below in order to have a beautiful, fast, great-sailing
machine.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Swans are
always among the prettiest, most comfortable, and fastest boats in
production.

Doug is such a complete idiot. Comfortable for who? Doing what? You
mean a Swan is more comfortable than a big PDQ? Holy crap.

My wife and I spent a weekend on a new 44' Nautor Swan in '99, soon after
the owner took possession. Nothing--absolutely nothing-- could even
remotely be termed "uncomfortable" on that boat, below or topside. It was
diligently designed, beautifully executed, and sailed like a dream. Sad
part was its price: around $800K. I can't afford one.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Maxprop wrote:
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...

Wauqiez and Jboat, they can't compete with the 35s5 from a design
standpoint.

That's probably true if you're a moron.


Yeah, one of those Mooron's who's 6'3 and wonders why anyone would make
a bunk 6'4 or even 6'6. When my wife saw the Wauqiez sleeping quarters
she laughed.


Interesting how you seem stuck on berth length as the primary criteria in
selecting a boat. Then again, if one uses his boat as a dockside condo, I
can understand your reasoning. Personally I'll put up with quite a bit of
inconvenience below in order to have a beautiful, fast, great-sailing
machine.

Max


Not!

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Maxprop wrote:

"DSK" wrote in message


No. There is no such thing as zero heel--a boat will always heel
when
beating to windward unless it's a small dinghy with a 300lb. skipper
and
similarly-sized crew.

Not true.


Explanation of your response, please.


The boat heels in response to
1- the amount of wind
2- the way the sails are trimmed

If there's a LOT of wind, then yes the boat will heel... even with no
sails up at all. In normal sailing winds, it is quite possible to trim for
5 degrees windward heel. This is not new, it was fairly common advice...
yet very rarely followed... back in the 1960s.

I can't imagine what sort of trim would heel a close-hauled boat to windward
in normal (non-drifter) winds,WITHOUT the addition of hiking railmeat. But
I'm open to learn.

One thing that is new, and that I have not tried, is Oz1's advice that
fancy plastic sails don't need to be heeled to take shape in very light
air.

Fully-battened mains will obviously stay in shape, even when heeled to
windward. But I wasn't aware that the same thing could be achieved with
some of the new sheet laminate headsails.

Yep. The boat accelerates much better and if it's one of those gawd-awful
days with chop & light air, it can go thru the lumpy parts better.


I agree that it does, but what is your explanation for this effect?


???

Why do I have to explain it?

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, but there must be some
reason for it. I was just curious, not interogative.

It doesn't take a heavy crew, even.


Not in light air. That's what I said originally.


Nor in moderate air... if you're in control of the boat and not
vice-versa.

Depends upon your definition of "moderate air," and whether you're sailing a
dinghy or a more substantial keel boat. A dinghy is easy to keep bolt
upright in moderate air, but a keel boat will be somewhat more difficult
unless one has a hefty crew complement on the weather rail.



OTOH there are times when I like a lot of heel, like just before a tack
;)


For roll-tacking?


Bingo.

Roll-tacking was not allowed in Snipe events when I raced them. Now
apparently it's SOP. When just sailing around the lake with friends or my
wife, I used to roll-tack the Snipe and found it to be a very effective way
to power through the tack. This was long before discussions of the maneuver
hit the sailing press. Later I used it routinely when racing Lasers, but
finally was DSQ'd in one race in a regatta in Michigan for using "disallowed
kinetics." Forced to stop, it ****ed me off so thoroughly that I sold the
Laser and quit dingy racing altogether. It was a bitter pill to discover
that years later it was considered okay.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message

I've never comsidered arrogance as a character flaw and insolance
predisposes that ranking is in question. :-)

One of my residency preceptors once told me: "It's okay to be arrogant, but
only if you can back it up with intelligence, knowledge, abilities and
reputation." It's a character flaw if you can't support it in such a
manner, IMO.

Unfortunate as it may be, threads just don't seem to propagate on polite
humility.

The best way to kill this group is a continuous stream of polite sailing
discussions.

Oh, **** you. (I'll not be accused of tanking this NG) g

I've considered this group one of the best comedy venues online. I was
often rendered to tears of laughter when Ganz was losing it! One of my
favourites is when some poor soul inadvertently wanders in and posts a
diatribe prior to reading the group thoroughly.

There is another, but it may not interest you: rec.motorcycles.harley In
its own way it's a lot more fun than ASA.


Nonetheless... when it comes to sailing knowledge.... this is one of the
best spots for information... if you "pose your question in the form of an
answer"!

Are you Alex Trabek?

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message

The thing to remember is that without the "straight guys" most comedy
routines here would die at the first post.

C'mon, you two. If you both are honest, you've got to admit that you each
have played the disgruntled "straight guy" on occasion. We all have.


I was here when Dr. Armpit went over the edge... that was frickin'
hilarious!

One of my favourites was "Lil Stevie Sumner"... Oh and Ganzy after the
Bush won the election! He was snappin' like a rapid poodle at everything!

The whole distant left wing went nuts post-election. Ganz was just a single
example of what happened to them all. Funny, but for some reason he found
it worthwhile to vent here. I'd have just gone home and gotten drunk.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message


Oh and Ganzy after
the
Bush won the election! He was snappin' like a rapid poodle at
everything!


Hey, I was pretty upset when Bush won too.

My point exactly. See my post to Mooron.

Ironic thing is that now
most people who voted for him feel the same way. Do you know that the
previous owner of the 35s5 asked me (two minutes after meeting) if I
was anti-Bush. When I said "Of course" he said he'd never sell his boat
to a Bush supporter. Scary part...I think he was serious.

That is scary. Segments of the far left are still not thinking clearly.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Interesting how you seem stuck on berth length as the primary criteria
in
selecting a boat. Then again, if one uses his boat as a dockside
condo, I
can understand your reasoning. Personally I'll put up with quite a bit
of
inconvenience below in order to have a beautiful, fast, great-sailing
machine.

I'm afraid I can't agree and never met anyone who would. Being able to
get a reasonable night's sleep aboard is pretty important even for a
weekend cruiser. Sleep is pretty important to sail a boat safely the
next day. I can't imagine anyone buying a boat with such a critical
shortcoming. Of course most people aren't 6'3, so they have no problem.
I also don't think it's asking too much for a boat to have a head with
legroom for a tall person to be able to use the toilet. Sadly, too many
boats, including some highly touted models are poorly designed. If a
Catalina 350 or Beneteau 35s5 can manage to hit the right notes, I
don't see why I should accept less because a premium name is stamped
somewhere. When it comes to choosing a boat, DESIGN is where the search
begins....not subjective beauty or performance. In other words, if the
boat don't fit, I aint buying.

RB
35s5...a boat that fits...and looks and sails great!
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

I'm amazed by how many true Republicans feel that way now. Sure, there are
some rightwingnuts who'll never admit they were wrong, but with a 39%
approval rating, Bushco may even lose some of those when it finally comes
out that Rove/Chumpy revealed Plame to Novak and others.

Doubtful. Most of us who've abandoned our affection for W have done so for
any number of reasons, but not that fiasco. What's interesting is that
Scooter Libby hasn't been charged with revealing a CIA black operative.
Rather he's been charged with lying to a grand jury. Sound familiar? GOP
pulled the same political BS with Clinton and Starr. What is annoying is
that such political BS games are played on either side of the aisle. We
send representatives to DC to do our bidding, not engage in petty political
battles. They are wasting our money while keeping the media happy. Sucks.

The reason that W has lost so many of his original supporters is not because
of the Plame/Rove mess, and not *entirely* because of the Iraq war, albeit a
factor. It has more to do with failing to protect our borders from
undocumented aliens, from spending like there's a money pit somewhere in
Washington that we must not know about, and coming up with silly, crony
nominations for the Supreme Court, such as Harriet Meiers. Only you
liberals care about the Rove/Libby/Cheney scandal. Or about Tom DeLay. We
don't.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:Dalef.124008$yS6.75248@clgrps12...
Bush won the election! CM


This is probably why you can't travel to the US.

He can't?

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'd take the Swan, but not the Wauquez or J. We could have had either,
but the designs were not comparable to the 35s5. In the case of the
Wauquez we looked at one in CT in very good shape. Bunks were too
short, head was tiny, no swim platform.


A swim platform is a necessity for a sailboat to be worthwhile?

A feature you want is "worthwhile" and being able to sleep comfortably
on a 60-80K boat is not a "tall" order, but tough to find if you're
tall. The J-Boat had sleeping room, but no swim platform and no aft
cabin. Great boat for a couple, but less so for a family of 3 or 4.

Or, if maintained properly, they might be just fine. Best non-skid
available.

25-30 years is the typical lifespan for teak decks. Some go longer.
Teak decks can also hide expensive problems. I love them...but don't
want them on an older boat.
I'd have to try a Swan to know if it's a good boat for me. I don't
accept any boat by virtue of it's name. I looked at some pretty "good"
boats that were huge let-downs because of poor designs. The Tartan 34
MK2 and Briistol 35.5 were near the top of my list....and they I got
aboard them.
We looked at the Beneteau 35s5 and I had little hope of liking it. Life
can be funny. The 35s5 had the features we wanted and light air
ability. We then looked into the specific quality points and
history....we had found our boat. An added bonus...there are few
around. We have plenty of Bristols and Tartans, even Swans and a single
Nordic 30. But the 35s5 is rare enough here that I won't see it on the
road too often so to speak. Of course the main thing were the test
sails and the 35s5 was a blast, or as someone else wrote, "a screamer."
Anyway...I think you understand my choices as the group also does in
reality. But measured non-trolling posts like this one only drives them
deeper into a frenzy.

Not me, because I don't disagree with anything you said.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.
They're just now beginning to crack down on
kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
overlooks more kinetics than any other class. You
can always spot the Laser sailors when they
sailing in another class. They're the ones
ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly, they're
also the ones not getting along with their crew.
Kind of explains why they single hand.
S.
"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...
:: Roll-tacking was not allowed in Snipe events
when I raced them. Now
: apparently it's SOP. When just sailing around
the lake with friends or my
: wife, I used to roll-tack the Snipe and found it
to be a very effective way
: to power through the tack. This was long before
discussions of the maneuver
: hit the sailing press. Later I used it
routinely when racing Lasers, but
: finally was DSQ'd in one race in a regatta in
Michigan for using "disallowed
: kinetics." Forced to stop, it ****ed me off so
thoroughly that I sold the
: Laser and quit dingy racing altogether. It was
a bitter pill to discover
: that years later it was considered okay.
:
: Max
:
:

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

I'm afraid I can't agree and never met anyone who would. Being able to
get a reasonable night's sleep aboard is pretty important even for a
weekend cruiser. Sleep is pretty important to sail a boat safely the
next day.

I'd agree completely.

I can't imagine anyone buying a boat with such a critical
shortcoming. Of course most people aren't 6'3, so they have no problem.

That's the point. My son-in-law is 6'4", and the berths on my boat are all
about 6'3", so he isn't comfortable. But then I bought the boat before my
daughter married him, and I'm not about to trade a wonderful boat to
accommodate someone who stays aboard one or two weekends a year.

I also don't think it's asking too much for a boat to have a head with
legroom for a tall person to be able to use the toilet.

Again agreed. I once owned a boat with "standup" headroom in the head, but
that spec must have been written by the Japanese gent who built the thing.
I could stand up, but only with my head bent forward. Not pleasant. My
current boat has enough headroom for a 6 footer to stand with ample
clearance.

Sadly, too many
boats, including some highly touted models are poorly designed. If a
Catalina 350 or Beneteau 35s5 can manage to hit the right notes, I
don't see why I should accept less because a premium name is stamped
somewhere.

This is were we diverge. Boat manufacturers don't build yachts for people
who are a standard deviation or two above the norm in height. They build
for the universal "average man" of 5'7" to 6'1", roughly 160 to 200 lbs. If
your boat's berths can accommodate a 6'3" man comfortably, so much the
better. But most boats aren't built to do so. The Catalina 42, for
example, has a pullman berth which will accommodate taller people sleeping
alone (diagonally), and many newer designs from various manufacturers have
aft doubles which will do similarly. But don't plan to sleep with your
spouse in such berths if you're much over 6'. My son-in-law sleeps
diagonally in our pull-out double with our 3 y.o. grandson, and our daughter
sleeps in the single across from him.

When it comes to choosing a boat, DESIGN is where the search
begins....not subjective beauty or performance. In other words, if the
boat don't fit, I aint buying.

That may be a significant decision for you, especially with your height. I,
OTOH, look for sailing characteristics, aesthetics, quality of construction
and integrity of design first and foremost. THEN I look below, and if the
boat meets my needs there--I'm 5'11"--I'll buy it. I'm different than most
at boat shows: 99% of the people go below immediately. I spend most of my
time topside, and if the boat seems intelligently designed and well laid
out, then I'll go below. If it's an abortion topside, I'll skip the
interior. Examples of the latter were the larger Morgan Out Island series
of cruisers. They were arguably among the ugliest, poorest sailing boats of
all time. But they were amazingly commodious below, ostensibly built for
the charter trade. One acquaintance who owned a 34 OI claimed he had to
start the engine to tack in light air, and I believe him. But he was a big
dude and the berths were long and wide. You'd have loved it. g

My current boat is a classic, CCA-type boat with a fairly narrow beam and
the interior space of a smaller boat. There are many other 34' boats that
would be far larger below, but not come anywhere near her in terms of
quality, seaworthiness, seakindliness, general sailing ability, sail
handling, boat speed, etc. I routinely leave a friend's brand new Catalina
350 in my (almost indiscernible) wake on all points of sail except to
weather in under 3kts. of wind. That boat is huge below, but drags its
transom like a powerboat, leaving a wake that rocks boats in nearby marinas.
It isn't fast by any definition. You'd love it. g The point is--I'm
quite pleased with my current boat. I've sacrificed some space and perhaps
some comfort below--although it's acceptably comfortable for my wife and
me--in order to have a boat that sails beautifully, gives a very comfortable
ride in all conditions, is strong enough to take anything thrown at it, and
still draw comments of admiration from everyone who sees her. I wouldn't
exclude the 35s5 from my list if searching for another boat in that size
range (I'm not--the next boat will be 40' or longer) but it would be a
disappointment to own a boat that resembles the current genera of bleach
bottles churned out en masse these days.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"NotPony" wrote in messag

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.

I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA rule book, at that time,
prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking, and any other kinetic
movements which might give the competitor an unfair advantage." I never
roll tacked in a race, but did so all the time while just day sailing the
boat. The Snipe roll tacks as well as any boat I've sailed, which is
probably why Snipe sailors all do it these days.

They're just now beginning to crack down on
kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
overlooks more kinetics than any other class.

When I began to sail Lasers in '72, no one was roll tacking except me and a
few others from fleets in and around Detroit and Indianapolis. (I can't
honestly say what was happening out West or East, however.) Other skippers
used to ask me what I was doing, and I was always happy to oblige with info
and instructions on how to do it. Unfortunately one of them was a district
officer who took my information back to a national meeting at which kinetics
were deemed "unfair." The following spring I sailed in a regatta on the
Detroit River and was DSQ'd in a race for roll-tacking. I still won my
class, but that race was my throwout. Lucky for me it was my second to last
race, because I did poorly in the last race after being told I'd be DSQ'd if
I roll tacked even once. ****ed off, I sold the boat, and three years
later everyone was roll-tacking Lasers. The national big wigs must have had
a change of heart, or at least decided they'd be unable to stop something
that everyone was doing by then.

You
can always spot the Laser sailors when they
sailing in another class. They're the ones
ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly, they're
also the ones not getting along with their crew.
Kind of explains why they single hand.

Actually it's that they normally single hand that makes them unable to get
along with crew. After single handing for a year or so, I found it
frustrating to go back to having a crew (my wife) who couldn't read my mind.
It was simply awful to have to vocalize intentions and instructions again.
After dumping the Laser, I bought another Snipe and regretted it for the
entire season. Sold it in the Fall. It was either that or face the
prospect of divorce. g It was a good decision, because we've been married
for almost 35 years.

Max

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Maxprop wrote:
"NotPony" wrote in messag

Geesh, Max, hold old are you? Roll tacking has
been acceptable for as long as I can remember.

I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA rule book, at that time,
prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking, and any other kinetic
movements which might give the competitor an unfair advantage."
....

There was a lot of debate in the late '60's as to whether roll tacking
was considered kinetics. I was taught in 1965 to roll tack, but to
avoid doing it aggressively or too frequently. That is, it was OK to
do it to avoid losing ground on a tack, but not OK if you were gaining.

I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and a dozen teams
were sitting on the dock waiting for a breeze, and one team challenged
another to a roll tack race. Four or five teams hopped in their Tech
Dinghies and started roll tacking around the river. Several were so
good they seemed to be doing 2 or 3 knots! It was a bit of an eye
opener for me.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Jeff wrote....


I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and we motored.
Winds picked up and still we motored. Everyone was sailing, heeled over
and really feeling it. We have a multihull. We motored and motored and
motored....and motored some more.

Jeff

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Jeff wrote....


I remember a day when it was absolutely dead calm and we motored.
Winds picked up and still we motored.
....

Wow, that's really funny, Bob. Perhaps your most creative yet.

But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters? It sure looks like
this "stepping stone" was a step backwards in performance.

Good research, there, Bob. At least you have A/C so it won't be so
horrific sitting at the dock.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

One of the problems is that coaches, particularly
on the college, level aren't making sure the
sailors understand the rules. One of the coaches
I hired was sailing in one of our fun races. He
was continually pumping upwind in about 5k. I
pulled him aside later and told him he was
breaking rule 42. He and another college sailor
told me that their coaches had told them that
pumping was ok on the basis of 'once per wave'.
Neither of them had a copy of a rule book (kind of
dumb in my opinion) so I pointed out 42.2 and 42.3
Yeah, once per wave, but not beating and only if
surfing or planing is possible.
S.

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...
: I sailed Snipes in the early 70s. The SCIRA
rule book, at that time,
: prohibited "ooching, sculling, pumping, rocking,
and any other kinetic
: movements which might give the competitor an
unfair advantage." I never
: roll tacked in a race, but did so all the time
while just day sailing the
: boat. The Snipe roll tacks as well as any boat
I've sailed, which is
: probably why Snipe sailors all do it these days.
:
: They're just now beginning to crack down on
: kinetics. And in my opinion, the Laser class
: overlooks more kinetics than any other class.
:
: When I began to sail Lasers in '72, no one was
roll tacking except me and a
: few others from fleets in and around Detroit and
Indianapolis. (I can't
: honestly say what was happening out West or
East, however.) Other skippers
: used to ask me what I was doing, and I was
always happy to oblige with info
: and instructions on how to do it. Unfortunately
one of them was a district
: officer who took my information back to a
national meeting at which kinetics
: were deemed "unfair." The following spring I
sailed in a regatta on the
: Detroit River and was DSQ'd in a race for
roll-tacking. I still won my
: class, but that race was my throwout. Lucky for
me it was my second to last
: race, because I did poorly in the last race
after being told I'd be DSQ'd if
: I roll tacked even once. ****ed off, I sold the
boat, and three years
: later everyone was roll-tacking Lasers. The
national big wigs must have had
: a change of heart, or at least decided they'd be
unable to stop something
: that everyone was doing by then.
:
: You
: can always spot the Laser sailors when they
: sailing in another class. They're the ones
: ooching, sculling, pumping, torquing, and roll
: jibing every 30 seconds. Interestingly,
they're
: also the ones not getting along with their
crew.
: Kind of explains why they single hand.
:
: Actually it's that they normally single hand
that makes them unable to get
: along with crew. After single handing for a
year or so, I found it
: frustrating to go back to having a crew (my
wife) who couldn't read my mind.
: It was simply awful to have to vocalize
intentions and instructions again.
: After dumping the Laser, I bought another Snipe
and regretted it for the
: entire season. Sold it in the Fall. It was
either that or face the
: prospect of divorce. g It was a good
decision, because we've been married
: for almost 35 years.
:
: Max
:
:

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters?


Are you suggesting that a Catalina 36 or 34 will sail faster in light
air??? Do tell.


RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:Dalef.124008$yS6.75248@clgrps12...
Bush won the election! CM


This is probably why you can't travel to the US.

He can't?

Sheesh... I've got my EU passport so no problem..... but I don't want to get
shaken down for a retinal scan and fingerprint for your Homeland Security
Office.

I have 2 US Visas and an American Social Security Card. I have travelled
through-out the USA years ago.... down the west coat to Mexico taking in
every state along the West coast... back up from Mexico through the central
western states.... I would say that I have been to more states than most of
you.. I've been in every state up the Eastern coast and all along your
border with Canada. I've been through most of the central states as well.
The USA offers nothing I couldn't find anywhere else on the planet. In
general... I found it to be paranoid, rude and the people generally ignorant
of anything outside their respective states ... let alone their national
borders.

Canada, Mexico, Cuba and the Caribbean offers everything the US does.... so
I have no need to travel there except maybe to visit some of my many
American friends..... but not at the price of getting a shake-down and
frisked at the front door. Most people specify no US stops on trips to other
countries now.

Globally speaking... and in very general terms.... I found that years ago
Americans were tolerated but disliked.... whereas now it seems they are
despised and avoided. I must state however that I have had pleasant
experiences with the American Tourists visiting Canada. I also had the
pleasure to meet with some very nice Americans during my travels there. It
seems that politeness and courtesy is contagious.

But rest assured... I'd prefer a trip to the USA than any Muslim Country
right now!

CM

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Wow, that's really funny, Bob.


Humor and truth...a great combo!
I just wish my boat was faster than a catalina 36 in light air!


RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Nothing... he does it to generate sailing discussion. Look at the topic
and
subject matter on this group since he has returned!
Politics... next to nothing.... yet he is single-handedly handling a
myraid
of attacks on his prepostorous claims.

Yup, even Sloco would have to admit that the group is back talking
about sailing again. It's too bad I have to do it by flogging certain
members here....but Jeff and Loco are perfect humorless straight men.
They're the "Margaret Dumont" of Alt.sailing.Asa.
I hope someone remembers the great Dumont!

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Shut Up Cartman!

CM

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Nothing... he does it to generate sailing discussion. Look at the topic
and
subject matter on this group since he has returned!
Politics... next to nothing.... yet he is single-handedly handling a
myraid
of attacks on his prepostorous claims.

Yup, even Sloco would have to admit that the group is back talking
about sailing again. It's too bad I have to do it by flogging certain
members here....but Jeff and Loco are perfect humorless straight men.
They're the "Margaret Dumont" of Alt.sailing.Asa.
I hope someone remembers the great Dumont!

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Shut Up Cartman!


That's it....Screw you guys! I'm going home.


RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Gawd I luv South Park!

Ha Ha ha ha

CM

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Shut Up Cartman!


That's it....Screw you guys! I'm going home.


RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
But seriously, what are you going to do now that you know that your
new boat is such a dog in light air it needs and extra 24 seconds/mile
handicap to stay with the Catalinas and Hunters?


Are you suggesting that a Catalina 36 or 34 will sail faster in light
air??? Do tell.


I only have the numbers to go by - there are several Catalinas whose
ratings are only about a dozen seconds slower than your boat. The
bendy, however, needs a huge handicap to catch up - 12 to 14 seconds
more than various Catalinas. What its saying is that the rating of
the 35s5 is really about the same as the Catalina 34 and 36 in light
air.

This isn't my "opinion," these are the facts. For opinions, you can
find numerous people who say that the bendy is hard to sail to its
potential, and requires high skills of both helm and crew. You're the
one who claimed the rating is actually too low and "average" skippers
have trouble winning because of that.

Further, your mylar sails doesn't count for much - you could add those
to any boat. Can you point to your long experience winning races with
fractional rigs? The light air difference between the bendy and your
old C&C with you at the helm may be too small to measure.

Now if you really wanted a light air cruiser, you could have had this
for $64,000:
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/classi...p40_bquest.jpg
PHRF of about 42, with a light air adjustment of -26, for a net rating
of 16.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

It's looking more and more like the Boob made the wrong decision. I
like that Trip 40 by the way.

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

This isn't my "opinion," these are the facts. For opinions, you can
find numerous people who say that the bendy is hard to sail to its
potential, and requires high skills of both helm and crew. You're the
one who claimed the rating is actually too low and "average" skippers
have trouble winning because of that.


Here are some "facts" for you, Jeff. Do with them as you wish.
The Catalina has less sail area than the 35s5 and displaces 2000 lbs
more. The 1st series hull has less wetted surface as well. I have a
nice Catalina 34 here that I've sailed plenty of times and I sailed
Catalina 36's on a few occasions. Catalina 36 SA/D is 16.99. They are
not terrible in light air...maybe a bit worse than my Pearson 30 was.
Unlike you I've sailed the boats being discussed. It was a light air
sail on the 35s5 near Oyster Bay that sealed the deal. Keep in mind
that we also sailed the J34c, which we found comparable in light
air...and rated the same. If you think a Catalina 36 can outrun a 35s5
or J34c there's simply no hope for you, dude. Hey, but if warms your
heart any, the Catalina backs up better!
You can crunch numbers until you turn blue, read comments and race
committee evaluations. None of that effects the truth of the matter as
indicated by owners and someone who's actually SAILED the boats...which
I have posted warts and all. I'm not surprised that a performance boat
has to be sailed well to achieve it's potential, but I could see how it
would worry you!
Let us know when you get some real experience with any of these boats.

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

Now if you really wanted a light air cruiser, you could have had this
for $64,000:
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/classi...p40_bquest.jpg
PHRF of about 42, with a light air adjustment of -26, for a net rating



Uh, yeah Jeff...good pick for a family boat! You sure know boats!

RB
35s5
NY

Thank You JEFF!!!
 

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:40Kef.112372$y_1.97239@edtnps89...

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:Dalef.124008$yS6.75248@clgrps12...
Bush won the election! CM


This is probably why you can't travel to the US.

He can't?

Sheesh... I've got my EU passport so no problem..... but I don't want to
get shaken down for a retinal scan and fingerprint for your Homeland
Security Office.

Mr. Ganz seems to be under the impression you aren't allowed to travel to
the US.

I have 2 US Visas and an American Social Security Card. I have travelled
through-out the USA years ago.... down the west coat to Mexico taking in
every state along the West coast... back up from Mexico through the
central western states.... I would say that I have been to more states
than most of you.. I've been in every state up the Eastern coast and all
along your border with Canada. I've been through most of the central
states as well. The USA offers nothing I couldn't find anywhere else on
the planet.

I believe you mean *somewhere else on the planet.* I doubt if you'd find,
for example, something like Chesepeake Bay in Saudi Arabia or Tanzania.

In general... I found it to be paranoid, rude and the people generally
ignorant of anything outside their respective states ... let alone their
national borders.

Pretty much like Canadians. I find Canadians and Americans to be so similar
as to be virtually indistinguishable, those from the French provinces the
exception, as they mostly tend to be incredibly rude and arrogant. You are
right, however, that many Americans are ignorant of anything beyond their
respective state borders, and beyond their hometowns in many cases. Same
with Canadians. On a motorcycle trip through Canada some years ago, I found
it worthless to ask directions much beyond 20 miles or so from my current
location. No one had the foggiest of what was over the next hill. But I
found most Cannucks to be friendly and congenial, the same as I've found
most Americans to be. You remarked that you don't consider arrogance to be
a character flaw. Perhaps those that meet you do.


Canada, Mexico, Cuba and the Caribbean offers everything the US does....

Canada: how many Canadian automobiles (not just American cars made under
license) does your country produce? How many indigenous motorcycles? How
many provinces have tropical or subtropical climates?

Mexico and/or Cuba: won't even bother with those

Caribbean: how many freshwater rivers, bays and tidewater estuaries do you
find there? What is the per capita income throughout the Caribbean, and how
does it compare with Canada or the USA? And on and on . . .

If you mean that those countries *combined* offer everything the US does,
then you might be close. But I can have all those things without having to
show my passport or deal with incompetent local governments bent on
extorting money from me. And I can make a decent living anywhere within the
borders of the USA. buy virtually any product or service imaginable, and not
have to deal with the petty, extortionist bureaucrats that such places as
Cuba and Mexico have in droves.

so I have no need to travel there except maybe to visit some of my many
American friends.....

Would these be the rude, arrogant ones? Now that you mention it, birds of a
feather . . .

but not at the price of getting a shake-down and frisked at the front
door. Most people specify no US stops on trips to other countries now.

Hmmm. Try flying into Frankfort, Germany, or Tel Aviv, for examples, to
witness just how paranoid the authorities can be. Spread 'em and raise your
arms, Mooron. g


Globally speaking... and in very general terms.... I found that years
ago Americans were tolerated but disliked.... whereas now it seems they
are despised and avoided.

Bull****. You watch too much liberal TV and believe the half-truths and
distortions you see. My last trip to China was a real eye-opener. We were
informed beforehand that we might get a less-than-friendly reception. To
the contrary we were treated like visiting royalty. The Chinese kids in
Beijing were so interested in us that they almost wouldn't leave us alone.
And the adults all wanted to know what it was like to live in the USA. We
stopped in Germany on the way home and were likewise treated warmly and with
respect. The only minor glitch we encountered was with an overly officious
jerk in the customs office at JFK International upon our return.

I must state however that I have had pleasant experiences with the
American Tourists visiting Canada. I also had the pleasure to meet with
some very nice Americans during my travels there. It seems that politeness
and courtesy is contagious.

No ****? According to folks like you, there can't be over a dozen or more
decent Americans. You must have met them all in one sitting.

But rest assured... I'd prefer a trip to the USA than any Muslim Country
right now!

Right now, yes, because you'd be taken for an American. My last trip to
Jordan/Saudi Arabia/Egypt was between Desert Storm ('91) and the current
Iraq war. The Arabs we dealt with were friendly, courteous, congenial, and
very interested in life in America. I saw a professor, an Arab with one of
the universities in Germany--don't recall which at the moment--talking on
CNN not long ago. He said that nearly every country on the planet has
traditionally had people who look up to Americans (oh, I suppose that might
include you guys, too) and wish to learn more about them, emulate them in
some ways (dress, music, culture). Recently, however, with the
preponderance of anti-US sentiment throughout the world media, many of those
same people, who've envied Americans, now have an excuse to dislike them.
He likened it to Michael Jackson--many people were jealous of his wealth,
fame, talent. But when he became tarnished, they jumped on the bandwagon of
those who hated him. Jealousy is always a great motivator.

Max