Since it's approaching... well okay it's at least a month and a half away
for some of us... time to consider what approach to use on the vessel's
wood trim this year, I thought I would start the annual ASA wood treatment
thread.

There are those who use Varnish, those who use Cetol, those who use Tung Oil
and some of you that use your own secret recipe.

What is your preferred method and how do you apply the finish?

To start of... I have used varnish, and wasn't convinced that the work to
produce such luster was worth the effort of application for one season of
duration. I've even tried cetol and was not impressed with the results on
both occasions. For years I simply used Teak Oil or Tung Oil and kept a kit
aboard for touch ups as required. It's easy to apply and clean up is no
problem. The woodwork shows a nice colour and retains it's texture. Last
season I applied teak oil and let it dry before applying a coat of clear
Behr deck waterproofing, UV inhibitor sealant. It seemed to work since I
had no reason to reapply further teak oil all season. Yet this year I
noticed some greying of the teak... so here I go again. What should I use
this year? Should I just give up and try another Varnish or let the teak go
grey?

CM

You should rip all the outside wood off so you do not have to so much
work maintaining it. Replace your hand holds and trim with Steel!

That said, I have solid mahogany spreaders, I sand and varnish them
about every other year. A fun summer day project. If I had teak deck Id
let em go gray. I used Cetol last time I did my spreaders and the
celtol seems to hold up longer than varnish, yet varnish looks way
better. 8-10 coats of varnish is the way to go, wet sanding with 600
grit Norton sandpaper between every coat. My whole interior is
phillipino & hondouran mahogany with 8 hand sanded coats of Epifanes
Varnish, It took that many coats because I selected mahogany mith
intense mudulley rays that are very porious and sucked in the varnish.

Joe

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
You should rip all the outside wood off so you do not have to so much
work maintaining it. Replace your hand holds and trim with Steel!

Stainless hand holds???... in my climate?.... no thanks! I've been aboard a
friend's steel boat here in the winter.... the damn thing was insulated and
it was still cold.


That said, I have solid mahogany spreaders, I sand and varnish them
about every other year. A fun summer day project. If I had teak deck Id
let em go gray. I used Cetol last time I did my spreaders and the
celtol seems to hold up longer than varnish, yet varnish looks way
better. 8-10 coats of varnish is the way to go, wet sanding with 600
grit Norton sandpaper between every coat. My whole interior is
phillipino & hondouran mahogany with 8 hand sanded coats of Epifanes
Varnish, It took that many coats because I selected mahogany mith
intense mudulley rays that are very porious and sucked in the varnish.

I've used a special Tung oil from Lee Valley.... it has additives that
produce a hard glossy surface. I haven't tried it yet on my boat but I might
this year. The stuff is expensive... $13 for 500ml. It showed excellent
results on the roll-top table I refurbished a couple of years ago... but I
don't know if it will last under outdoor conditions.

CM

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message

Stainless hand holds???... in my climate?.... no thanks! I've been aboard
a friend's steel boat here in the winter.... the damn thing was insulated
and it was still cold.

Yeah, but think of the built-in watermaker you have during humid weather.
The condensation on the interior hull topsides could probably fill a gallon
bottle by noon.

Max

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Since it's approaching... well okay it's at least a month and a half away
for some of us... time to consider what approach to use on the vessel's
wood trim this year, I thought I would start the annual ASA wood treatment
thread.


I'm confused. By "wood treatment" you mean talking about guns, right?


There are those who use Varnish, those who use Cetol, those who use Tung Oil
and some of you that use your own secret recipe.

What is your preferred method and how do you apply the finish?


My preferred method is to let my wife do it. But if i had to, I'd sand
the heck out of the wood, *clean it thoroughly* (a step that most people
skimp on, or skip entirely), and apply a few coats of thinned varnish
to seal it. The expenive stuff with UV inhibitors. After lightly sanding
that, then I'd think about either 1- applying more varnish or 2-
painting it a nice pale gray/green or buff. That cheap porch & deck
paint lasts nearly forever... a boat I did this to is now in north
Florida and is just starting to need some attention after about 8 years.


To start of... I have used varnish, and wasn't convinced that the work to
produce such luster was worth the effort of application for one season of
duration.

???

You must be doing it wrong. You get so little UV up ther that varnish
should last nearly forever. Is the wood clean & dry when you're applying it?

... I've even tried cetol and was not impressed with the results on
both occasions.

IMHO Cetol only lasts about 10% longer than varnish. It's less work but
only because you need fewer coats. Also IMHO the best Cetol finish
doesn't look anywhere near as good as a mediocre varnish finish, but
that's a matter of taste.

Frankly, unless the wood itself is very nice (good color & grain) it's
not worth showing off. Most boats should have paint... there are several
boats in out marina... expensive ones... where the owners waste far too
much time & effort on brightwork that will only look mediocre (and that
from a distant) because it simply isn't good looking wood to start with.


.... Last
season I applied teak oil and let it dry before applying a coat of clear
Behr deck waterproofing, UV inhibitor sealant. It seemed to work since I
had no reason to reapply further teak oil all season.

That sounds like an interesting treatment. I might try that on one of
our little boats (mahogany splashboard).

... Yet this year I
noticed some greying of the teak... so here I go again.

What, do you seriously expect to not have to do brightwork every year?

... What should I use
this year? Should I just give up and try another Varnish or let the teak go
grey?


Up to you. What else ya got goin' on?

It's a matter of priorities as well as personal taste & aesthetics. For
example, if *I* had to do all the varnish on our tugboat, it would have
been painted two years ago. I got other important stuff to do, wiring in
batteries, fixing the plumbing, replacing heat exchangers, installing
Webasto heater, etc etc.

But letting it go grey is not such a good idea IMHO... it will be far
more work to bring it back once you get tired of it looking like crap.

Fresh Brushes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

I'm confused. By "wood treatment" you mean talking about guns, right?

Gunstocks get abuse as well....

My preferred method is to let my wife do it. But if i had to, I'd sand the
heck out of the wood, *clean it thoroughly* (a step that most people skimp
on, or skip entirely), and apply a few coats of thinned varnish to seal
it. The expenive stuff with UV inhibitors. After lightly sanding that,
then I'd think about either 1- applying more varnish or 2- painting it a
nice pale gray/green or buff. That cheap porch & deck paint lasts nearly
forever... a boat I did this to is now in north Florida and is just
starting to need some attention after about 8 years.

Painting it grey is out of the question.... next you'll be suggesting to
take a porch paint and brush to the deck and topsides?

???

You must be doing it wrong. You get so little UV up ther that varnish
should last nearly forever. Is the wood clean & dry when you're applying
it?


Clean, sanded and silky smooth..... 600 grit for the first 4 coats and
plastic abrasive for the next 4 coats. Washed and cleaned between coats
after abrasive. I use a polishing compound on the final coat. Looks good for
3 months then I start noticing weathering in isolated areas.

CM

"DSK" wrote in message

I'm confused. By "wood treatment" you mean talking about guns, right?

Indeed. We haven't had a gun thread for what? Two weeks?

Max

Dear Group,

Please allow me to express my opinion of the fanatic care and feeding of trim
wood on sailboats.

1) Those who spend time, effort and dollars on so-called 'brightwork' are more
interested in showing than going. DSK is a good example of this stupidity with
his bragging about all the time his wife spends on the varnishing. Please note
that this maintenance time is down-time.

2) If the wood is functional, such as the spreaders on Joe's fine, blue-water,
steel vessel, then, by all means, do take care of this functional wood in any
manner which preserves it the best. If you like the way several coats of varnish
looks and don't mind the extra work then use varnish. On the other hand, if you
are more interested in longevity and protection without the constant work then
use a quality enamel paint to cover and seal the wood.

3) Teak trim on a sailboat is just that - trim. It is unnecessary and just makes it so
you need to spend more time maintaining and less time sailing (or motoring as in
the case of DSK). Fools like Doug would rather walk up and down a dock and
criticize the brightwork on other boats and compare it to theirs than spend time
actually using their boats for the intended purpose which is NOT a constant,
futile, never-ending cycle of brightwork maintenance. Even allowing his wife
to do the brightwork when Doug states he would rather paint the wood shows
he is no man.

4) Real sailors replace all wood trim with plastic or they prepare the wood carefully
one time and then paint it with a quality paint (or they remove it). If the painted
wood is in an area where it can wear (such as foot traffic, line chafe, etc.),
then the wood should be protected with steel. (Joe is smarter than most of you,
face it!)
Please check out how I painted and protected the two pieces of teak that remained
on the deck of my fine vessel. Click on the following link and scroll down toward
the middle where a photo of the companionway hatch is shown (sstrim.jpg) and you'll
note the teak is painted white (with Petit Easypoxy) and protected from foot traffic
by a polished stainless steel strake. http://captneal.homestead.com/littleperfections.html

5) I have tossed the constantly-rotting, teak, cockpit locker covers and replaced them with
maintenance-free plastic. http://captneal.homestead.com/bristol.html
I will replace the teak-faced, plywood, companionway washboards with the same white
plastic (Star Board) as soon as they rot out more and become unserviceable.

I will never spend one more dollar or one more minute of my sailing time varnishing exterior
wood. It is a never-ending waste of time and money. People who spend any time, whatsoever,
doing their "brightwork" are not sailors but pretenders who show off their brightwork
because they cannot show-off their sailing skills because they don't have the time to develop
any. I find people who have their priorities all wrong like this totally boring and disgusting.
They impress me about as much as some conceited, fat fool wearing a bunch of heavy, gold
chains around his neck and they share similar personality traits - all show and no go!

I hope this helps put things in the proper perspective.


Respectfully,
Capt. Neal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do
than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -- Mark Twain






"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message news:w%iXd.9210$ZO2.3913@edtnps84...
Since it's approaching... well okay it's at least a month and a half away
for some of us... time to consider what approach to use on the vessel's
wood trim this year, I thought I would start the annual ASA wood treatment
thread.

There are those who use Varnish, those who use Cetol, those who use Tung Oil
and some of you that use your own secret recipe.

What is your preferred method and how do you apply the finish?

To start of... I have used varnish, and wasn't convinced that the work to
produce such luster was worth the effort of application for one season of
duration. I've even tried cetol and was not impressed with the results on
both occasions. For years I simply used Teak Oil or Tung Oil and kept a kit
aboard for touch ups as required. It's easy to apply and clean up is no
problem. The woodwork shows a nice colour and retains it's texture. Last
season I applied teak oil and let it dry before applying a coat of clear
Behr deck waterproofing, UV inhibitor sealant. It seemed to work since I
had no reason to reapply further teak oil all season. Yet this year I
noticed some greying of the teak... so here I go again. What should I use
this year? Should I just give up and try another Varnish or let the teak go
grey?

CM

Crap'n Neal® wrote:
Please allow me to express my opinion of the fanatic care and feeding of
trim wood on sailboats.

1) Those who spend time, effort and dollars on so-called 'brightwork'
are more
interested in showing than going.

That may sometimes be the case. However it is also true that first, they
have the good taste to own a good-looking boat.

... DSK is a good example of this
stupidity with
his bragging about all the time his wife spends on the varnishing.
Please note
that this maintenance time is down-time.

Actually, one can varnish perfectly well underway, or anchored in a nice
cove.


3) Teak trim on a sailboat is just that - trim. It is unnecessary

Handrails and hatch slides are unnecessary?


5) I have tossed the constantly-rotting, teak,

Actually teak is *very* resistant to rot. In fact under normal
conditions and given even half-competent care, it will never rot.

If yours were rotting then where does that leave you?


.. I will replace the
teak-faced, plywood, companionway washboards with the same white
plastic (Star Board) as soon as they rot out more and become unserviceable.

You can buy the same plastic stuff at Home Depot for less than half the
cost.


I will never spend one more dollar or one more minute of my sailing
time varnishing exterior
wood.

Since you don't ever spend any time sailing, that's easy for you to say.

DSK

Well now; Woodwork,

That is an APT word for it Wood Work! Plenty of work!

This old man has been the whole route, more than once or twice. I
haven't YET decided what is best. The best looking I think is the well
sanded teak. Sanded in stages down in grit size until the teak has the
look of polish and then the multi layers of Varnish. When just done
beautiful when aged; Ugly.

I've just now, at the present time, just returned to teak oil, without
any hardener. Pure teak oil. A lot of care. Frequent care but the
easiest of all care. Can be done under way while on auto pilot. Can be
done half ass or not. Can start and stop without a problem. BUT!!! It
has to be done often and has to be done.

The interior of my boat is teak, as the pictures show. I use the apply
and rub down and finish with a hand rub. I'm to old for that **** now.

I do the floor with oil applied with a long handle brush. When the floor
stops taking oil I use the same brush on bulkheads, lockers and shelves.
I hand finish with a paper towel soaked with oil.

Do the same with paper towel on hand holds, Hatch slides and main hatch
doors.

I do kind of agree, right now with Neal. The boat is for sailing
pleasure but good looking trim does increase that pleasure.
It is different when moored in a marina than when you're hanging on a
hook. Comparisons are made

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage