Maxprop wrote:
.... maybe
a little Sikkens Cetol Marine on a few choice wooden parts.

Somebody stop him!

Friends don't let friends use Cetol...

DSK

We've told him that and told him that but he keeps on Sikkensing....of
course, he's always done way before we are with our varnishing...
(and he's got a lot more wood...)

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:
.... maybe a little Sikkens Cetol Marine on a few choice wooden parts.

Somebody stop him!

Friends don't let friends use Cetol...

DSK

Friends don't let friends use Cetol...


katysails wrote:
We've told him that and told him that but he keeps on Sikkensing....of
course, he's always done way before we are with our varnishing...
(and he's got a lot more wood...)


Hmm, you may be either sanding too much or putting it on too thin, or
just plain using the cheap stuff. In your climate, you should be able to
keep 6+ coats on with almost no work at all. I'll have my wife consult
with you, she's the varnish expert now...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Winter takes its' toll on varnish in a very bad way here...and Mr Sails is a
varnish fanatic...its' done as a matt4er of course rather than a matter of
need...

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Friends don't let friends use Cetol...


katysails wrote:
We've told him that and told him that but he keeps on Sikkensing....of
course, he's always done way before we are with our varnishing...
(and he's got a lot more wood...)


Hmm, you may be either sanding too much or putting it on too thin, or just
plain using the cheap stuff. In your climate, you should be able to keep
6+ coats on with almost no work at all. I'll have my wife consult with
you, she's the varnish expert now...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

katysails wrote:
Winter takes its' toll on varnish in a very bad way here...

How so? I've never seen a snow cover tear up varnish the way intense UV
from the southern sun will do.

... and Mr Sails is a
varnish fanatic...its' done as a matt4er of course rather than a matter of
need...


My wife has gone from racing tactician to teak nazi. Nowadays when we
walk around looking at boats, she is as likely to criticize the
brightwork as make a comment about the rig or design. And one thing we
agree on (actually we agree on many things) is that we have never seen a
Cetol finish that looked as good as even a half-assed varnish finish
much less a good one. You can read a newspaper in the reflection off our
brightwork, which is not half-assed IMHO.

If Maxprop's boat has decent wood on it, she deserves better.

Fresh Brushes- Doug King

We tarp and humidity gets under there...what we have found is that there is
a direct relationship to the proximity of the wood pulp factory to where our
boat is moored and stored...Muskegon is an industrial town and I think air
pollution might explain some of it...our varnish jobs lasted better when we
were up farther north away from industry....
and yes, Max's boat is worth the effort of varnish, but hey, he likes cetol,
so who am I to complain?

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
katysails wrote:
Winter takes its' toll on varnish in a very bad way here...

How so? I've never seen a snow cover tear up varnish the way intense UV
from the southern sun will do.

... and Mr Sails is a varnish fanatic...its' done as a matt4er of course
rather than a matter of need...


My wife has gone from racing tactician to teak nazi. Nowadays when we walk
around looking at boats, she is as likely to criticize the brightwork as
make a comment about the rig or design. And one thing we agree on
(actually we agree on many things) is that we have never seen a Cetol
finish that looked as good as even a half-assed varnish finish much less a
good one. You can read a newspaper in the reflection off our brightwork,
which is not half-assed IMHO.

If Maxprop's boat has decent wood on it, she deserves better.

Fresh Brushes- Doug King

katysails wrote:
We tarp and humidity gets under there...

Humidity is bad, especially going through thaw/freeze cycles, but unless
there are already bubbles in the varnish, or moisture sealed in, I don't
understand how this is going to tear up the finish. I have some
experience with boats left outside through New England winters, and they
usually required touching up... sometimes major touching up... but
varnish up there lasts a lot longer than down here in my admittedly
limited experience.


... what we have found is that there is
a direct relationship to the proximity of the wood pulp factory to where our
boat is moored and stored...Muskegon is an industrial town and I think air
pollution might explain some of it...our varnish jobs lasted better when we
were up farther north away from industry....

I can see that. Fly ash will put acid spots on every surface... it's bad
for cars too.


and yes, Max's boat is worth the effort of varnish, but hey, he likes cetol,
so who am I to complain?

Hold your eyes painfully when you walk by his boat

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"katysails" wrote in message

We tarp and humidity gets under there...what we have found is that there
is a direct relationship to the proximity of the wood pulp factory to
where our boat is moored and stored...Muskegon is an industrial town and I
think air pollution might explain some of it...our varnish jobs lasted
better when we were up farther north away from industry....

I never thought about that, but you are correct: the paper company's
effluent is acidic, with a pH around 4 or 5. It wreaks havoc on isenglas,
and I suspect it would be tough on varnish, too, if held against it via
condensation during the off-season months.

and yes, Max's boat is worth the effort of varnish, but hey, he likes
cetol, so who am I to complain?

I actually don't like Cetol, but it's a compromise between time spent
refinishing and time spent sailing/sunbathing/swimming/partying/et.al.

Max

"DSK" wrote in message

My wife has gone from racing tactician to teak nazi. Nowadays when we walk
around looking at boats, she is as likely to criticize the brightwork as
make a comment about the rig or design.

For her birthday or next Christmas, get her a copy of Rebecca Wittman's book
"Brightwork." A nice coffee table book as well as an anal retentive
brighworker's treatise. She'd love it, if she doesn't already have it.

And one thing we agree on (actually we agree on many things) is that we
have never seen a Cetol finish that looked as good as even a half-assed
varnish finish much less a good one. You can read a newspaper in the
reflection off our brightwork, which is not half-assed IMHO.

If Maxprop's boat has decent wood on it, she deserves better.

I really enjoy properly varnished teak, but my personal experience is that
teak is simply too oily to hold varnish properly in hot summer sunlight.
Mahogany is another story, and our former Mariner 31 ketch had
lovingly-varnished mahogany brightwork.

I'm probably a bit like your wife in my approach to varnish, but I prefer
Cetol simply because it lasts, and with minimal problems. It's a compromise
between work and appearance. I honestly believe that ours is the finest,
best-equipped Sea Sprite 34 in the country (it's one of the few
factory-completed boats, for starters), but it could be nicer, if we'd take
the time to varnish all the brightwork. But we enjoy our time off (it's
precious and scarce) too much to get anal about the wood's appearance.
Cetol, in the eyes of most people who walk the dock, does not detract from
the appearance of our boat. However that really does not matter to me.
What matters is keeping the wood 'healthy' and clean in appearance. And
Cetol Marine does all that and more. And it affords us the time to sail and
enjoy our all-too-brief summer seasons. Perhaps when we retire to Oriental,
we'll reconsider varnish for the brightwork.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
For her birthday or next Christmas, get her a copy of Rebecca Wittman's book
"Brightwork." A nice coffee table book as well as an anal retentive
brighworker's treatise. She'd love it, if she doesn't already have it.


We already have 2 copies... she keeps one in her office... but thanks
for the recommendation...


I really enjoy properly varnished teak, but my personal experience is that
teak is simply too oily to hold varnish properly in hot summer sunlight.
Mahogany is another story, and our former Mariner 31 ketch had
lovingly-varnished mahogany brightwork.


That depends on the wood and how it's been treated, but for the most
part you're probably right. Using thinners can drive out much of the
near-surface oil but it will always come back... at least for ten years
or so...


I'm probably a bit like your wife in my approach to varnish, but I prefer
Cetol simply because it lasts, and with minimal problems.

That's not the case, from my observations. Given two equally prepped
pieces of wood, the Cetol will outlast varnish by about 10% at most, and
require about 10% less work to maintain.

The new clear stuff doesn't look as bad as the old orange Jell-O Cetol,
but it still doesn't look good up close. If the wood has pretty enough
grain to be worth any type of bright finish, it deserves varnish IMHO.

BTW we had a professional do some of the wood on our boat when we first
bought it, the former owner had slapped on a terrible coating of
polyurethane. He also takes care of a number of boats with Cetol and he
swears the stuff is actually more work than varnish.

... Perhaps when we retire to Oriental,
we'll reconsider varnish for the brightwork.


That part of NC (around New Bern as well) is getting to be worse than
Florida. They're four-laning the highway to Oriental, so that the
blue-hairs will have an easier time. But hey, there's plenty of room for
more!

But if you move the boat down South, you'll be astonished at the
difference in the longevity of any type finish. UV is very destructive.
If you don't have varnish now, you certainly won't want it down here
unless you put the boat under a cover.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King