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Have you seen the latest improvements???
Have you seen the latest improvements I've made on my blue-water cruising yacht?
Click on this link and feast your eyes on perfection: http://captneal.homestead.com/Exterior.html Lot's of links to great photos that will make your mouth water and your complexion green with envy. Be careful, though, because after looking at my fine vessel, your mediocre vessels won't ever satisfy you again. (A word to the wise is sufficient!) CN |
Overall, I'd say you're taking reasonably good care of your boat (I could
nitpick, but that's what it would be). However, some points which you and others may not agree upon, but for what they're worth...... 1. You're either going to have to buy a bigger boat, or figure you've put about as much on it as you can. 2. Case in point, the bow. I'm hoping that all those anchors were up there, mainly for the pictures, and not normally stowed that way, especially underway or at sea.. Way too much clutter and chance for fouling, etc.. I'd rather see one anchor on that size boat that fit's most your needs, with the others stowed someplace else, for use when conditions warrant. 3.The new rollers seem to have too many sharp edges on the side plates which could (kinda tough to imagine all the possible angle leads) cause potential chaffing problems when you least need or expect them. 4.Bow cleats. I see you've added a set (not sure what your thinking was, but not that bad an idea). Overall, I don't like the fairlead possibilities, over the side, from either of these cleats, especially the main ones you are using for your mooring lines. Again, too sharp an angle, even considering the half round. Have you considered adding a chock (closed or open) closer to the edge, then leading to the cleat? Could be a single larger or double larger cleat/ bollard, located closer to the centerline. (reason I say larger .... I see you are immediately figure 8'ing your line [and with your cleat size, line size, I would too], but I'd rather see a full round turn before you figure 8. By looking at this set-up, you may be able to clean-up what is becoming an all too cluttered area. BTW Flemished lines are for show, not go.... they only impress Admirals and politicians. otn EG Kindly note, this post is not meant as my usual rampant criticism of your normal nonsense, but rather, constructive comment. "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Have you seen the latest improvements I've made on my blue-water cruising yacht? Click on this link and feast your eyes on perfection: http://captneal.homestead.com/Exterior.html Lot's of links to great photos that will make your mouth water and your complexion green with envy. Be careful, though, because after looking at my fine vessel, your mediocre vessels won't ever satisfy you again. (A word to the wise is sufficient!) CN |
Comments interspersed.
"otnmbrd" wrote in message k.net... Overall, I'd say you're taking reasonably good care of your boat (I could nitpick, but that's what it would be). Thanks for the good words . . . However, some points which you and others may not agree upon, but for what they're worth...... 1. You're either going to have to buy a bigger boat, or figure you've put about as much on it as you can. No bigger boat for me. Studies have been done and a well-found sailing yacht of 27 feet is perhaps the best all around compromise to be had for a single-hander. 2. Case in point, the bow. I'm hoping that all those anchors were up there, mainly for the pictures, and not normally stowed that way, especially underway or at sea.. Way too much clutter and chance for fouling, etc.. I'd rather see one anchor on that size boat that fit's most your needs, with the others stowed someplace else, for use when conditions warrant. And you would be incorrect. Remember the lines rolled up in the middle are mooring lines and will not be there when underway. They will be buoyed and in the water. That leaves three anchors, a plow, a Danforth, and a yachtsman or Herreschoff as it is sometimes called. These three different types of anchors are needed depending upon the bottom type as shown on the carts. One can pick the one(s) most likely to hold the best under the circumstances. The plow is the only anchor to have the rode stowed on deck. It is also the least used as it is the most likely to drag unexpectedly. The rodes for the Herreschoff and Danforth are stowed in the chain locker. So, remove all the lines you see in this pictu http://captneal.homestead.com/files/prtbw.jpg except the one on the port side which is for the plow. and you will see how it looks when underway. Not much clutter now, is there? 3.The new rollers seem to have too many sharp edges on the side plates which could (kinda tough to imagine all the possible angle leads) cause potential chaffing problems when you least need or expect them. If you could see the rollers and channel plate close up you would see all the edges are nicely rounded off and smooth from the factory. This is stainless steel and expensive. There has never been any chaffing of the rode to date. 4.Bow cleats. I see you've added a set (not sure what your thinking was, but not that bad an idea). Overall, I don't like the fairlead possibilities, over the side, from either of these cleats, especially the main ones you are using for your mooring lines. Again, too sharp an angle, even considering the half round. The originals are where they are and there's not much I can do about it other than using a bit of chaffing gear that can be seen in the picture for the mooring lines. The extra cleats I added (the aft cleats) : http://captneal.homestead.com/files/Yacht_010e.jpg are positioned so the lead-in from the opposite side roller makes for a fair lead and no chafing at all. Note that in the pic above I was anchored off the Danforth for a short while just to take to take a pictures so the line is lead to the same side cleat whereas for real anchoring it would lead to the opposite side cleat and the lead would be fair. For two anchors deployed you would see crossed lines leading to the cleats. Understand? In other words the cleats are placed so the port side cleat services the starboard side anchor roller and vice versa. Pretty clever, huh? Have you considered adding a chock (closed or open) closer to the edge, then leading to the cleat? Could be a single larger or double larger cleat/ bollard, located closer to the centerline. (reason I say larger .... I see you are immediately figure 8'ing your line [and with your cleat size, line size, I would too], but I'd rather see a full round turn before you figure 8. There is no room for a chock. In actuality, the aft side of the original cleats acts as a chock.If the line is lead from the aft end of the cleat there is not as much bending as you a seem to be concerned with and by adding some pvc tubing over the mooring line, it takes care of chafe. When anchoring, it doesn't seem to be a problem because the lines don't go as straight down as the mooring lines do. I did add the stainless steel rubbing strake to smooth the sharp GRP edge near the cleat, however. By looking at this set-up, you may be able to clean-up what is becoming an all too cluttered area. Again, there is very little clutter if you look at the above pic as it shows things as they are when underway except the Danforth would be on its bow roller and it's rode would be stowed in the chain locker. If you are referring to this pic http://captneal.homestead.com/files/anchor.jpg then you are correct. They were Flemished for the pic only. I no longer use the little anchor chocks for the Danforth but haven't removed them yet. I plan to leave them in place but surround them with teak tapered so there is no tripping or snagging hazard. They make a good place to store an emergency anchor which I have stowed in the cockpit locker in case of storm conditions where another ready anchor might be warranted. BTW Flemished lines are for show, not go.... they only impress Admirals and politicians. But they look so cool. EG Kindly note, this post is not meant as my usual rampant criticism of your normal nonsense, but rather, constructive comment. Thanks for you comments. You made some good points. CN "Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Have you seen the latest improvements I've made on my blue-water cruising yacht? Click on this link and feast your eyes on perfection: http://captneal.homestead.com/Exterior.html Lot's of links to great photos that will make your mouth water and your complexion green with envy. Be careful, though, because after looking at my fine vessel, your mediocre vessels won't ever satisfy you again. (A word to the wise is sufficient!) CN |
Comments also interspersed.
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Comments interspersed. "otnmbrd" wrote in message k.net... Overall, I'd say you're taking reasonably good care of your boat (I could nitpick, but that's what it would be). Thanks for the good words . . . However, some points which you and others may not agree upon, but for what they're worth...... 1. You're either going to have to buy a bigger boat, or figure you've put about as much on it as you can. No bigger boat for me. Studies have been done and a well-found sailing yacht of 27 feet is perhaps the best all around compromise to be had for a single-hander. \ In that case I'd say be careful of any additional equipment.....you're developing a nasty cluttered look. 2. Case in point, the bow. I'm hoping that all those anchors were up there, mainly for the pictures, and not normally stowed that way, especially underway or at sea.. Way too much clutter and chance for fouling, etc.. I'd rather see one anchor on that size boat that fit's most your needs, with the others stowed someplace else, for use when conditions warrant. And you would be incorrect. Remember the lines rolled up in the middle are mooring lines and will not be there when underway. They will be buoyed and in the water. That leaves three anchors, a plow, a Danforth, and a yachtsman or Herreschoff as it is sometimes called. These three different types of anchors are needed depending upon the bottom type as shown on the carts. One can pick the one(s) most likely to hold the best under the circumstances. The plow is the only anchor to have the rode stowed on deck. It is also the least used as it is the most likely to drag unexpectedly. The rodes for the Herreschoff and Danforth are stowed in the chain locker. So, remove all the lines you see in this pictu http://captneal.homestead.com/files/prtbw.jpg except the one on the port side which is for the plow. and you will see how it looks when underway. Not much clutter now, is there? To me, yes. If you can look ahead with your charts for possible anchor type requirements, then for the most part you can either use one type for initial anchoring and then change for preferential anchor or break out your preferred as approaching the anchorage. What you have has too much clutter and chance of fouling under a stressful condition ( set up for worst case scenario with minimum clutter and equipment that covers "most" possibilities). Hey, it may work for you, but I see too many "bad" possibilities here. 3.The new rollers seem to have too many sharp edges on the side plates which could (kinda tough to imagine all the possible angle leads) cause potential chaffing problems when you least need or expect them. If you could see the rollers and channel plate close up you would see all the edges are nicely rounded off and smooth from the factory. This is stainless steel and expensive. There has never been any chaffing of the rode to date. This may be true, but I've seen too much chaffing under conditions when it was thought things were well rounded (see below) 4.Bow cleats. I see you've added a set (not sure what your thinking was, but not that bad an idea). Overall, I don't like the fairlead possibilities, over the side, from either of these cleats, especially the main ones you are using for your mooring lines. Again, too sharp an angle, even considering the half round. The originals are where they are and there's not much I can do about it other than using a bit of chaffing gear that can be seen in the picture for the mooring lines. The extra cleats I added (the aft cleats) : http://captneal.homestead.com/files/Yacht_010e.jpg are positioned so the lead-in from the opposite side roller makes for a fair lead and no chafing at all. Note that in the pic above I was anchored off the Danforth for a short while just to take to take a pictures so the line is lead to the same side cleat whereas for real anchoring it would lead to the opposite side cleat and the lead would be fair. For two anchors deployed you would see crossed lines leading to the cleats. Understand? In other words the cleats are placed so the port side cleat services the starboard side anchor roller and vice versa. Pretty clever, huh? Possibility would be to remove originals and replace with chocks and use newer as main cleats. You will note, that in your picture, at anchor, that the line led in such a way it crossed what I would consider "sharp" edges on the roller frame, plus crossed and rubbed against the pulpit. As you say, if the opposite cleats will normally be used and the lead is fair, this might help things, but, sometimes fairleads don't always work exactly as we want..... no, these rollers would not be my favorite. Have you considered adding a chock (closed or open) closer to the edge, then leading to the cleat? Could be a single larger or double larger cleat/ bollard, located closer to the centerline. (reason I say larger .... I see you are immediately figure 8'ing your line [and with your cleat size, line size, I would too], but I'd rather see a full round turn before you figure 8. There is no room for a chock. In actuality, the aft side of the original cleats acts as a chock. Yes and no. I can see your points, but, I think I would keep looking at this area for improvements. Naturally, it's hard to judge, based on pictures, but I see too many chances for fouled equipment and line chafing, coupled with a big ship mentality of clearing the decks of any extras, anything that moves, or anything that might move when underway. otn |
Oh Neal,
I'm sorry old buddy but I'm embarrassed for you and for your boat. Please don't show those pictures again. You still haven't taken care of the Bimini support so that a winch handle can turn 360 degree turn. You should be ashamed to show that picture of wing on wing with the Jenny inside the shroud. that is terrible and the Main. My God man! You have a screw up on the Tack. I can't even call it a wrinkle it is so large. It should be trimmed out Get that damn head sail outside the shroud and trim the damn main sail by vang and halyard tension, It is as easy to sail correctly as it is to sail stupidly and more fun. Don't tell us how many different boats you've beaten with that kind of sail trim. No way! She does look nice and clean and I've already complimented you on the job you done on the cockpit seats. Nice paint job also, Neal, no paint job can hide the fact that she is a flat sided, high sided boat with a damn ugly sheer. I don't have to tell you. you've admitted it by trying to hide it with your paint job I'll laugh with you about,---from to Crow's Nest (as if you had one) but I sure wouldn't want to be on watch aloft in what you call a crows nest. There are enough old timer here to remember these pictures with their blaring errors. Please don't show them again. Ole Thom |
Your boats looks very shipshape Capt Neal.
What kind of paint did you use when you painted it? "Capt. Neal®" wrote http://captneal.homestead.com/Exterior.html |
Sears Weatherbeater...
"Bart Senior" wrote in message ... Your boats looks very shipshape Capt Neal. What kind of paint did you use when you painted it? "Capt. Neal®" wrote http://captneal.homestead.com/Exterior.html |
Capt. Neal® wrote:
2. Case in point, the bow. I'm hoping that all those anchors were up there, mainly for the pictures, and not normally stowed that way, especially underway or at sea.. Way too much clutter and chance for fouling, etc.. I'd rather see one anchor on that size boat that fit's most your needs, with the others stowed someplace else, for use when conditions warrant. That leaves three anchors, a plow, a Danforth, and a yachtsman or Herreschoff as it is sometimes called. It would be nice if you actually had a Herreshoff Anchor, but that looks like a cheap imitation. On a true Herreshoff, the broad palms extend further towards the crown. And if you going to drop names like Herreshoff in order to sound intelligent, the least you could do is spell it correctly. These three different types of anchors are needed depending upon the bottom type as shown on the carts. One can pick the one(s) most likely to hold the best under the circumstances. The plow is the only anchor to have the rode stowed on deck. It is also the least used as it is the most likely to drag unexpectedly. This is certainly contrary to the universal experience of cruisers. Of course, pound for pound the CQR is particular inefficient, especially at the smaller sizes. Perhaps you should get a modern version of the plow. |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message This is certainly contrary to the universal experience of cruisers. Of course, pound for pound the CQR is particular inefficient, especially at the smaller sizes. Perhaps you should get a modern version of the plow. The CQR is my favourite anchor. If you set properly with correct chain and rode... there is no reason to doubt the plow design as being effective. My 26lb stainless plow with 100 ft of chain is my main anchor. The chain is fastened by swivel shackle to 300 ft of 3/4" rode. My second anchor is also a plow, galvanized, with the same set up. I also have a 50lb steel fluke and a 60lb fisherman's anchor with 30 ft lengths of chain for each and a spool of 1/2" braid I can use as rode. CM |
"Jeff Morris" wrote
This is certainly contrary to the universal experience of cruisers. Of course, pound for pound the CQR is particular inefficient, especially at the smaller sizes. Perhaps you should get a modern version of the plow. We're thinking about either a spade or a bruce. Capt. Mooron wrote: The CQR is my favourite anchor. If you set properly with correct chain and rode... there is no reason to doubt the plow design as being effective. OK, how do you set it properly? We've been using a CQR anchor for two years with less than stellar results... it's never dragged but it is often slow to set and appears to not like a wider range of bottoms than I'd have thought. If I can find a good enough deal on a replacement, we're taking it off. We have a 35# Danforth also but it's stowed in the lazarette and is a PITA to get out & deploy. .... My 26lb stainless plow with 100 ft of chain is my main anchor. The chain is fastened by swivel shackle to 300 ft of 3/4" rode. My second anchor is also a plow, galvanized, with the same set up. I also have a 50lb steel fluke and a 60lb fisherman's anchor with 30 ft lengths of chain for each and a spool of 1/2" braid I can use as rode. 1/2" braid anchor rode for a 30-footer?!?! And you should get longer chains for your backups. Take 25' off the chain on your CQR and put it on the fluke & fisherman. We have 40' of 3/8" HT chain on each anchor. I'd rather have more but we often anchor in 5' and that puts the chain right at the sampson post. I'd like to have a fisherman anchor, probably need one about 75#, as a backup but they are horrible to stow. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
DSK wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote This is certainly contrary to the universal experience of cruisers. Of course, pound for pound the CQR is particular inefficient, especially at the smaller sizes. Perhaps you should get a modern version of the plow. We're thinking about either a spade or a bruce. The Spade certainly has received a number of converts lately. I've been very happy with Delta anchors, though if I were commissioning now I might pick the Spade. While the Bruce sets quickly, its holding power is rather limited. Capt. Mooron wrote: The CQR is my favourite anchor. If you set properly with correct chain and rode... there is no reason to doubt the plow design as being effective. OK, how do you set it properly? We've been using a CQR anchor for two years with less than stellar results... it's never dragged but it is often slow to set and appears to not like a wider range of bottoms than I'd have thought. If I can find a good enough deal on a replacement, we're taking it off. Prompt setting is a problem with the CQR. I got rid of mine partly for the reason. The balance on it is such that it can land upside and drag for 100 feet or more before it flips over. One solution is to let is sit for 10 minutes or so before backing down. With the Delta I wait for about 30 seconds to a minute so the point will start to dig in, but it always lands point first because of the extra weight in the tip. In in very thick mud, the thick shank of the CQR can inhibit digging in - that's part of the reason they went with a thinner shank on the Delta, and also a reason not to use very heavy chain. Another reason to go with a Delta or Spade is simply the weight efficiency. Unless you have an electric windlass (or a cattle prod to enforce discipline) the extra weight becomes a negative incentive to resetting if the first set does not work out as desired. I've never dragged a well-set anchor, but I have regretted my location a number of times. We have a 35# Danforth also but it's stowed in the lazarette and is a PITA to get out & deploy. One virtue of the Danforth-style is quick setting in many bottoms, making it handy in emergency situations. I keep a Fortress with modest chain on deck as secondary. It helps to have two bows! .... My 26lb stainless plow with 100 ft of chain is my main anchor. The chain is fastened by swivel shackle to 300 ft of 3/4" rode. My second anchor is also a plow, galvanized, with the same set up. I also have a 50lb steel fluke and a 60lb fisherman's anchor with 30 ft lengths of chain for each and a spool of 1/2" braid I can use as rode. 1/2" braid anchor rode for a 30-footer?!?! And you should get longer chains for your backups. Take 25' off the chain on your CQR and put it on the fluke & fisherman. That's a bit thin - I use 9/16 NE Rope 3-strand for all my rodes. The 3/4 inch, on the other hand, is overkill, since it won't stretch enough to reduce shock loading. My previous boat (a Nonsuch 30 which is somewhat bigger than the Nordica) came with 100' of chain and a thick rode - I was much happier when I downsized everything and replaced the CQR with a Delta. We have 40' of 3/8" HT chain on each anchor. I'd rather have more but we often anchor in 5' and that puts the chain right at the sampson post. I use 50' of 5/16 - enough to reach the windlass gypsy in the deepest water I normally anchor in. It does mean I've had 15:1 scope a few times, but what of that? I'd like to have a fisherman anchor, probably need one about 75#, as a backup but they are horrible to stow. The Luke can be broken down to fit in a bilge, but its expensive. A lot of people are going to a large Fortress as a storm anchor, since it can be broken down. The holding power of a FX-85 is immense. |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message Prompt setting is a problem with the CQR. I got rid of mine partly for the reason. The balance on it is such that it can land upside and drag for 100 feet or more before it flips over. One solution is to let is sit for 10 minutes or so before backing down. With the Delta I wait for about 30 seconds to a minute so the point will start to dig in, but it always lands point first because of the extra weight in the tip. I've never experienced that with either of my CQR anchors. I found the set was generally either a postive bite or a no-set.... and this is immediatly noticable. I do not like danforths unless I'm setting in sand. That's a bit thin - I use 9/16 NE Rope 3-strand for all my rodes. The 3/4 inch, on the other hand, is overkill, since it won't stretch enough to reduce shock loading. My previous boat (a Nonsuch 30 which is somewhat bigger than the Nordica) came with 100' of chain and a thick rode - I was much happier when I downsized everything and replaced the CQR with a Delta. My rational is that the 1/2" is for alternate use. I do not find the 3/4" a hinderance at all... shock loading is handled by the chain and snubbers if required. I don't believe the Nonsuch 30 is a bigger vessel than mine at all. In actual use it pays to utilize what works... and the system I now use works. CM |
Capt. Mooron wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message Prompt setting is a problem with the CQR. I got rid of mine partly for the reason. The balance on it is such that it can land upside and drag for 100 feet or more before it flips over. One solution is to let is sit for 10 minutes or so before backing down. With the Delta I wait for about 30 seconds to a minute so the point will start to dig in, but it always lands point first because of the extra weight in the tip. I've never experienced that with either of my CQR anchors. I found the set was generally either a postive bite or a no-set.... and this is immediatly noticable. It could be the bottoms you're hanging on to. I do not like danforths unless I'm setting in sand. They bite instantly in sand, but they're even better in soft mud where plow anchors often do the "slow drag." (I'm guessing you don't have much soft mud where you are.) On other bottoms they can release and not reset. That's a bit thin - I use 9/16 NE Rope 3-strand for all my rodes. The 3/4 inch, on the other hand, is overkill, since it won't stretch enough to reduce shock loading. My previous boat (a Nonsuch 30 which is somewhat bigger than the Nordica) came with 100' of chain and a thick rode - I was much happier when I downsized everything and replaced the CQR with a Delta. My rational is that the 1/2" is for alternate use. I do not find the 3/4" a hinderance at all... shock loading is handled by the chain and snubbers if required. Its a myth that chain gives shock absorbing in heavy whether. The absorbing value starts at the maximum, and reduces to zero as the condition worsens. If you use all chain or very heavy line, you need a snubber. I don't believe the Nonsuch 30 is a bigger vessel than mine at all. Not a lot bigger, but somewhat bigger. And its a fin keel boat, not a 'crusher. In many ways, the Nonsuch is a 36 footer in drag. LOA Nordica 30 29.49 Nonsuch 30 30.33 LWL Nordica 30 25 Nonsuch 30 28.75 Beam Nordica 30 9.77 Nonsuch 30 11.83 Displacement Nordica 30 10220 Nonsuch 30 11500 Sail Area Nordica 30 502 Nonsuch 30 540 Capsize Ratio Nordica 30 1.8 Nonsuch 30 2.1 Hull Speed Nordica 30 6.7 Nonsuch 30 7.18 In actual use it pays to utilize what works... and the system I now use works. On that I would agree with you. There are two different approaches to anchoring: the "weight is great" approach, and the "light weight hi-tech" approach. Both are self consistent and the choice is a personal one. I went with the light weight approach because it offered me the best chance of ending up in a spot I was comfortable with. With the heavier gear I was prone to saying "I don't like it here, but I'll be damned if I'm going to haul that thing again!" And of course with the catamaran, I wanted to keep weight down, especially at the bow. |
In the SF bay, Danforths work fine. When I was in Belize, we had a primary
plow on 43' catamaran, which didn't hold no matter what we tried, but the relatively tiny Danforth worked like a charm. I imagine that there is something to be said for being familiar with what you have, along with choosing the appropriate anchor. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Capt. Mooron wrote: "Jeff Morris" wrote in message Prompt setting is a problem with the CQR. I got rid of mine partly for the reason. The balance on it is such that it can land upside and drag for 100 feet or more before it flips over. One solution is to let is sit for 10 minutes or so before backing down. With the Delta I wait for about 30 seconds to a minute so the point will start to dig in, but it always lands point first because of the extra weight in the tip. I've never experienced that with either of my CQR anchors. I found the set was generally either a postive bite or a no-set.... and this is immediatly noticable. It could be the bottoms you're hanging on to. I do not like danforths unless I'm setting in sand. They bite instantly in sand, but they're even better in soft mud where plow anchors often do the "slow drag." (I'm guessing you don't have much soft mud where you are.) On other bottoms they can release and not reset. That's a bit thin - I use 9/16 NE Rope 3-strand for all my rodes. The 3/4 inch, on the other hand, is overkill, since it won't stretch enough to reduce shock loading. My previous boat (a Nonsuch 30 which is somewhat bigger than the Nordica) came with 100' of chain and a thick rode - I was much happier when I downsized everything and replaced the CQR with a Delta. My rational is that the 1/2" is for alternate use. I do not find the 3/4" a hinderance at all... shock loading is handled by the chain and snubbers if required. Its a myth that chain gives shock absorbing in heavy whether. The absorbing value starts at the maximum, and reduces to zero as the condition worsens. If you use all chain or very heavy line, you need a snubber. I don't believe the Nonsuch 30 is a bigger vessel than mine at all. Not a lot bigger, but somewhat bigger. And its a fin keel boat, not a 'crusher. In many ways, the Nonsuch is a 36 footer in drag. LOA Nordica 30 29.49 Nonsuch 30 30.33 LWL Nordica 30 25 Nonsuch 30 28.75 Beam Nordica 30 9.77 Nonsuch 30 11.83 Displacement Nordica 30 10220 Nonsuch 30 11500 Sail Area Nordica 30 502 Nonsuch 30 540 Capsize Ratio Nordica 30 1.8 Nonsuch 30 2.1 Hull Speed Nordica 30 6.7 Nonsuch 30 7.18 In actual use it pays to utilize what works... and the system I now use works. On that I would agree with you. There are two different approaches to anchoring: the "weight is great" approach, and the "light weight hi-tech" approach. Both are self consistent and the choice is a personal one. I went with the light weight approach because it offered me the best chance of ending up in a spot I was comfortable with. With the heavier gear I was prone to saying "I don't like it here, but I'll be damned if I'm going to haul that thing again!" And of course with the catamaran, I wanted to keep weight down, especially at the bow. |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message It could be the bottoms you're hanging on to. No... I doubt that is the issue since the span of time includes 9 years in a lake situation having everything fromm loon****, weed beds and round cobble. The current 4 years in Nova Scotia has seen a wide variety of sea floor types.... including sand, kelp beds and rock.. They bite instantly in sand, but they're even better in soft mud where plow anchors often do the "slow drag." (I'm guessing you don't have much soft mud where you are.) On other bottoms they can release and not reset. In sand and soft mud they work well... although I have found a tendency to bury exceedingly deep in soft mud with the danforth I used. Its a myth that chain gives shock absorbing in heavy whether. The absorbing value starts at the maximum, and reduces to zero as the condition worsens. If you use all chain or very heavy line, you need a snubber. How high a wave exposure do you anchor in that would require a storm set? I found the chain seems to keep the anchor aligned and slows the binding on a pivot. I have dove to inspect my anchor sets on many occasions to see for myself what was happening on the set. I especially took time to dive if I sufferred a drag. On another note.... I found that in a blow while at anchor.... my storm set consists of a very heavy 20 foot chain from the CQR to another 30 ft lighter chain followed by a 100 ft of 3/4" rode which is fastened to my 100ft chain.... seems to plant the boat nicely with minimal stress to the vessel. I do insist on a wide swing radius in foul weather. Not a lot bigger, but somewhat bigger. And its a fin keel boat, not a 'crusher. In many ways, the Nonsuch is a 36 footer in drag. LOA Nordica 30 29.49 Nonsuch 30 30.33 LWL Nordica 30 25 Nonsuch 30 28.75 Beam Nordica 30 9.77 Nonsuch 30 11.83 Displacement Nordica 30 10220 Nonsuch 30 11500 Sail Area Nordica 30 502 Nonsuch 30 540 Capsize Ratio Nordica 30 1.8 Nonsuch 30 2.1 Hull Speed Nordica 30 6.7 Nonsuch 30 7.18 Yes I can see it does seem a bit larger... but then again the Nordica carrries her beam well aft and forward of amidships..... still the Nonsuch is a thousand pounds heavier. On that I would agree with you. There are two different approaches to anchoring: the "weight is great" approach, and the "light weight hi-tech" approach. Both are self consistent and the choice is a personal one. I went with the light weight approach because it offered me the best chance of ending up in a spot I was comfortable with. With the heavier gear I was prone to saying "I don't like it here, but I'll be damned if I'm going to haul that thing again!" And of course with the catamaran, I wanted to keep weight down, especially at the bow. I can agree with that... but since the method I use has proven effective for me in a wide variety of conditions time over time... I'm loathe to alter the set-up based on someone else's experience on a different vessel. I am open to experimentation and will no doubt make use of any opportunity to try alternate methods. Ground tackle and the art of the proper set is not something that comes natural... it requires practice and experience to consistently hook up solid. I have my methods and gear.. it works in my situation. CM |
"Jeff Morris" yammered impotently: It would be nice if you actually had a Herreshoff Anchor, but that looks like a cheap imitation. On a true Herreshoff, the broad palms extend further towards the crown. Wrong again. Mr. Mush For Brains. It is a genuine Herreschoff anchor manufactured by Wilcox. It has the Wilcox Crittenden casting stamp on the inner side of the flukes. And if you going to drop names like Herreshoff in order to sound intelligent, the least you could do is spell it correctly. The correct way to spell Herreschoff is the way I spell it and not the way you imagined it was spelled. This is certainly contrary to the universal experience of cruisers. Of course, pound for pound the CQR is particular inefficient, especially at the smaller sizes. Perhaps you should get a modern version of the plow. Cruisers where? I anchor a lot in hard sand and, in hard sand, the CQR plow does not have a sharp enough point to penetrate the sand in a lot of cases. It would rather just skitter along on its side. The plow is also a rotten anchor in soft mud and grass of which there is a lot of in Florida Bay and the Bahamas. The best all-around anchor for setting the first time and staying set is the Danforth Hi-Tensile. The best anchor in rocks and coral is the fisherman. The plow comes in a distant third as far as all-around utility goes. I can never sleep soundly when laying to a plow, especially if there is a wind or current shift. The plow is notorious for just merrily sliding along the bottom plowing a little trench. The only way it can be trusted is to dive on it and manually shove it in, back and forth, about three or four times to get it started on it's way home. I have probably anchored a hundred times more than anyone who posts here in this group of wannabes and I have the experience to tell you the plow is an inferior anchor for tropical sailing . Don't even mention the Delta anchor which is but an inferior imitation of an inferior anchor. The only worse anchor than a Delta is one of those Aluminum fortresses that would rather fly like a kite in any kind of current than go to the bottom. Bottom line, with the three anchors on my bow and the two spare Danforth Hi-Tensile anchors stowed away in the cockpit lockers, my vessel will hold come Tsunami, Hurricane, Hell or High Water while all the other vessels in an anchorage relying on their one anchor as suggested by otnmbrd go on their merry way, pounding themselves to an ignominious death upon the nearest shore. Heed my words of wisdom . . . Capt. Neal ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Crap'n Neal® wrote:
The correct way to spell Herreschoff is the way I spell it and not the way you imagined it was spelled. Really? Better tell these folks... they've been getting it wrong for years. http://www.herreshoff.org/ You're welcome. Doug King |
Doug, please. Neal just has to be right. He can't be wrong no matter what!
You shouldn't point stuff out like this. We wouldn't want him to have a mental breakdown... I mean worse than he's already experiencing. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "DSK" wrote in message ... Crap'n Neal® wrote: The correct way to spell Herreschoff is the way I spell it and not the way you imagined it was spelled. Really? Better tell these folks... they've been getting it wrong for years. http://www.herreshoff.org/ You're welcome. Doug King |
Douggies, You are too stupid to know that the Herreschoff who invented the anchor is not the same Herreshoff who was a naval architect. But, what else can be expected from a trawler operator? CN "DSK" blathered: Really? Better tell these folks... they've been getting it wrong for years. http://www.herreshoff.org/ |
"DSK" wrote in message ... Crap'n Neal® wrote: The correct way to spell Herreschoff is the way I spell it and not the way you imagined it was spelled. Really? Better tell these folks... they've been getting it wrong for years. http://www.herreshoff.org/ You're welcome. Doug King Really? Maybe you'd better Google. Here! I Googled for you, you PUTZ! http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...eschoff+anchor CN |
JG wrote:
In the SF bay, Danforths work fine. When I was in Belize, we had a primary plow on 43' catamaran, which didn't hold no matter what we tried, but the relatively tiny Danforth worked like a charm. What type of plow? And did it not set (perhaps a very hard bottom), or did it set and drag (a very soft bottom), or seem to set, and then release (rocks or weeds)? In the first two cases, a Danforth will work better; in the third, its catch as catch can, so to speak. I imagine that there is something to be said for being familiar with what you have, along with choosing the appropriate anchor. A common trend in an anchor discussion is that people will say "I used an XXXX anchor for years and never had a problem." Newbies will generally have problems until they figure is out. |
"DSK" wrote We have a 35# Danforth also but it's stowed in the lazarette and is a PITA to get out & deploy. Why a PITA? I have 3 danforths on my boat. The main one in the anchor locker. 1/2" braid anchor rode for a 30-footer?!?! I use 1/2'' double braid. Scotty |
Scotty,
The right tool for the job . . . Do you use a claw hammer instead of a ball peen hammer when doing metal work? Do you use an ax when you are digging a hole instead of a spade? Think, man, think! There are many types of anchors that are the right tool for the job of anchoring and the right tool depends upon the bottom this tool is intended to tackle. There is no ONE anchor type that works well for all bottom conditions. For this reason one should have readily at hand a variety of different anchor types so one can tackle any bottom type with success. Any sailor who tells you to rely on one anchor or only have one anchor on the bow is no sailor but a lubber who has no experience nor any success at anchoring in other than one or two places he frequents where the bottom is known and consistent. We real cruising sailors, who have sailed and lived aboard for more years than most of the snot-nosed fools in this group have grown nose hairs, realize how it must be done and just get a good laugh when reading the claims of fools who say one anchor does it all. CN "Scott Vernon" wrote Why a PITA? I have 3 danforths on my boat. The main one in the anchor locker. |
Neal,
Just went back and checked your pictures. Excuse me for going on about how you fly your Jenny. I was wrong. Which makes another question. In the picture of your W-O-W, What the hell line is the Jenny wrapped on?? Nice Web, by the way. Ole Thom http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage |
Ole Thom, I was wondering about why you were saying the genny was sheeted inside the shrouds. It would not even be possible to do so because of the placement of the genny tracks outside the shrouds. The sheets must be lead outside all the standing rigging in order for it to work. What the Hell line is the jenny wrapped on??? Let me check the pic . . . I'm looking at this one: http://captneal.homestead.com/files/Wingnwing.jpg Maybe you are looking at the preventer line which appears on the left and near the opened hatch??? It does not go to the jenny. It is for the boom. CN "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Neal, Just went back and checked your pictures. Excuse me for going on about how you fly your Jenny. I was wrong. Which makes another question. In the picture of your W-O-W, What the hell line is the Jenny wrapped on?? Nice Web, by the way. Ole Thom http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage |
Neal,
Do you see what I'm talking about . Near the Clew? Could it be a Spinnaker Halyard? It sure looks like a line from the Gunnel going vertical on the Lee Side? It could maybe a shadow but I don't think my old eys are that bad yet (I hope) Ole Thom http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage |
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Neal, Do you see what I'm talking about . Near the Clew? Could it be a Spinnaker Halyard? It sure looks like a line from the Gunnel going vertical on the Lee Side? It could maybe a shadow but I don't think my old eys are that bad yet (I hope) I think you are seeing the port side preventer line. It goes from the boom, over the lifeline, down to a block, along the deck and back to a cleat near the companionway. CN |
"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message ... Scotty, The right tool for the job . . . Do you use a claw hammer instead of a ball peen hammer when doing metal work? I do, if it's handier than the others. Also have driven nails with a BP hammer. Any sailor who tells you to rely on one anchor or only have one anchor on the bow is no sailor but a lubber who has no experience nor any success at anchoring in other than one or two places he frequents where the bottom is known and consistent. Ah, there's the crux. I haven't left the Chesapeake Bay as yet. Scotty |
You know, I just can't remember at this point. It would set briefly, then on
a short watch, it would drag. So, we'd let out more scope and it would set again briefly. We repeated this until we either ran out of room to let out more scope or it was obvious that no matter how much we let out, it wouldn't make any difference. I've use the Danforth in a weed/sand area with a good amount of success. If I could actually get it in a patch of sand encircled by weeds/grass, it would generally hold. Aim was important... there's the sand, NOW! g When I first started sailing in situations that required anchoring for lunch or sleep, I remember being quite nervous about doing it and tended to put the engine in hard reverse to try and really, really, set the hook, but I soon figured out that was not helping at all. In the bay, we drop the hook and just let the boat drift back on its own. Job done. Occasionally, its necessary to give a light hand to reverse, but this is typically when there's no wind to push the boat back. The most difficult place I found was Cooper's Island, BVI, which is mostly grass. The first time I was there, it took three shots at it before it stuck. The second time, it stuck the first time, but we dragged a bit later that night. Since then, I either didn't have any trouble (checking with a dive on it) or elected to take a mooring. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... JG wrote: In the SF bay, Danforths work fine. When I was in Belize, we had a primary plow on 43' catamaran, which didn't hold no matter what we tried, but the relatively tiny Danforth worked like a charm. What type of plow? And did it not set (perhaps a very hard bottom), or did it set and drag (a very soft bottom), or seem to set, and then release (rocks or weeds)? In the first two cases, a Danforth will work better; in the third, its catch as catch can, so to speak. I imagine that there is something to be said for being familiar with what you have, along with choosing the appropriate anchor. A common trend in an anchor discussion is that people will say "I used an XXXX anchor for years and never had a problem." Newbies will generally have problems until they figure is out. |
JG wrote:
You know, I just can't remember at this point. It would set briefly, then on a short watch, it would drag. So, we'd let out more scope and it would set again briefly. We repeated this until we either ran out of room to let out more scope or it was obvious that no matter how much we let out, it wouldn't make any difference. Adding scope, assuming you had a proper amount to start, hardly ever helps. Its certainly no help if the bottom is too soft for the anchor. The one thing it does is give the anchor some time to dig in by itself. I've use the Danforth in a weed/sand area with a good amount of success. If I could actually get it in a patch of sand encircled by weeds/grass, it would generally hold. Aim was important... there's the sand, NOW! g That's why I use a fishfinder rather than a depthsounder. When I first started sailing in situations that required anchoring for lunch or sleep, I remember being quite nervous about doing it and tended to put the engine in hard reverse to try and really, really, set the hook, but I soon figured out that was not helping at all. Who cares if you're staying one the boat for a lunch break? The Fortress is nice as a lunch hook because you can set it by hand and feel when it grabs. This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. In the bay, we drop the hook and just let the boat drift back on its own. Job done. Occasionally, its necessary to give a light hand to reverse, but this is typically when there's no wind to push the boat back. That's about all I do for overnight setting, though we'll test by revving up, otherwise I wouldn't be able to sleep. We used to go crazy trying to back the Nonsuch, which can't back in a straight line. We learned that plow anchors set themselves best if you give them some time. The most difficult place I found was Cooper's Island, BVI, which is mostly grass. The first time I was there, it took three shots at it before it stuck. The second time, it stuck the first time, but we dragged a bit later that night. Since then, I either didn't have any trouble (checking with a dive on it) or elected to take a mooring. |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. I disagree..... I can definitely feel a solid hook up with chain. Matter of fact I can see the chain become taut when the set is placed. If motoring I back down for 30 seconds at 1800rpm.... otherwise I drop on the downwind and pay enough to keep the rode straight.... then come about hard to whichever side the anchor is on and allow the momentum to back me down for the set. I get an 80% success rate and the failures are readily seen, felt and corrected by another attempt. I really don't know how you guys have such a hard time with CQRs... It's a great general purpose anchor. I might have dragged 4 times in the last 20 years... none critical. I've seen many a vessel with supposedly experienced crew unable to place a solid hook. I find it particularly prevalent within the Club Racers.... excellent racing and sailing skillsets but no clue about how to secure their vessels to anchor. I've had Overproof set to my standard anchor for 3 weeks through 2 gales without dragging. This was a set in 30 feet of water with my stainless CQR, 100 ft chain and another 50 ft of 3/4" 3 strand. The bottom is a mix of rounded cobble and gravel containing a plethora of scallops. A dive on the hook prior to weighing anchor showed the plow buried to halfway up the shank and a gentle spiral of chain indicating a positive hold in veering wind. Newbies have a hard time because the do not understand fully what is required and lack experience...... the rest simply lack experience and expect failure. Being able to securely anchor your vessel is a very important skillset to have. I believe that Capt. Neal has an excellent set up and knows what it requires to secure to anchor.... whereas Jon illustrates he does not fully comprehend the actual anchoring skills required to safely secure his vessel. CM |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
... JG wrote: You know, I just can't remember at this point. It would set briefly, then on a short watch, it would drag. So, we'd let out more scope and it would set again briefly. We repeated this until we either ran out of room to let out more scope or it was obvious that no matter how much we let out, it wouldn't make any difference. Adding scope, assuming you had a proper amount to start, hardly ever helps. Its certainly no help if the bottom is too soft for the anchor. The one thing it does is give the anchor some time to dig in by itself. Hmmm... well, it's been my experience that sometimes a bit more chain on the bottom works, especially if there's a surg on. I guess it would give it time to dig in. This was a charter boat, so you got all chain rode and fortunately a windlass. I've use the Danforth in a weed/sand area with a good amount of success. If I could actually get it in a patch of sand encircled by weeds/grass, it would generally hold. Aim was important... there's the sand, NOW! g That's why I use a fishfinder rather than a depthsounder. Fishfinders are great... I have one on my Cal 20. It was less expensive than a regular digital depthsounder. I'm not sure it would help with seeing the bottom that much... as it's the cheapest they make. I don't using need anything other than depth knowledge in the bay, and I don't need a sounder to tell me, because I know the area well. When I first started sailing in situations that required anchoring for lunch or sleep, I remember being quite nervous about doing it and tended to put the engine in hard reverse to try and really, really, set the hook, but I soon figured out that was not helping at all. Who cares if you're staying one the boat for a lunch break? The Fortress is nice as a lunch hook because you can set it by hand and feel when it grabs. This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. This is certainly true, although you can tell. The rope rode tends to vibrate; whereas, the chain rode chatters. When we were off Green Cay recently, I showed this effect to one of the crew. In the bay, we drop the hook and just let the boat drift back on its own. Job done. Occasionally, its necessary to give a light hand to reverse, but this is typically when there's no wind to push the boat back. That's about all I do for overnight setting, though we'll test by revving up, otherwise I wouldn't be able to sleep. We used to go crazy trying to back the Nonsuch, which can't back in a straight line. We learned that plow anchors set themselves best if you give them some time. I'm going to be getting some practice backing in the next couple of days. The Yamaha 30 we have needs to get put away in a different spot, and it's near impossible to turn it around after it gets to its side-tie. I've done it before, and it should be good practice. The most difficult place I found was Cooper's Island, BVI, which is mostly grass. The first time I was there, it took three shots at it before it stuck. The second time, it stuck the first time, but we dragged a bit later that night. Since then, I either didn't have any trouble (checking with a dive on it) or elected to take a mooring. |
Whereas Mooron is just a fool, and I'm coming to the conclusion that he
rarely actually does any sailing. In any case, I was talking to Jeff, not a creep like you. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message news:qjoWd.15006$fc4.5222@edtnps89... "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. I disagree..... I can definitely feel a solid hook up with chain. Matter of fact I can see the chain become taut when the set is placed. If motoring I back down for 30 seconds at 1800rpm.... otherwise I drop on the downwind and pay enough to keep the rode straight.... then come about hard to whichever side the anchor is on and allow the momentum to back me down for the set. I get an 80% success rate and the failures are readily seen, felt and corrected by another attempt. I really don't know how you guys have such a hard time with CQRs... It's a great general purpose anchor. I might have dragged 4 times in the last 20 years... none critical. I've seen many a vessel with supposedly experienced crew unable to place a solid hook. I find it particularly prevalent within the Club Racers.... excellent racing and sailing skillsets but no clue about how to secure their vessels to anchor. I've had Overproof set to my standard anchor for 3 weeks through 2 gales without dragging. This was a set in 30 feet of water with my stainless CQR, 100 ft chain and another 50 ft of 3/4" 3 strand. The bottom is a mix of rounded cobble and gravel containing a plethora of scallops. A dive on the hook prior to weighing anchor showed the plow buried to halfway up the shank and a gentle spiral of chain indicating a positive hold in veering wind. Newbies have a hard time because the do not understand fully what is required and lack experience...... the rest simply lack experience and expect failure. Being able to securely anchor your vessel is a very important skillset to have. I believe that Capt. Neal has an excellent set up and knows what it requires to secure to anchor.... whereas Jon illustrates he does not fully comprehend the actual anchoring skills required to safely secure his vessel. CM |
"JG" wrote in message Fishfinders are great... I have one on my Cal 20. It was less expensive than a regular digital depthsounder. I'm not sure it would help with seeing the bottom that much... as it's the cheapest they make. I don't using need anything other than depth knowledge in the bay, and I don't need a sounder to tell me, because I know the area well. Yet you can't get a 40lb CQR to hold???.... Bwahahahahahahahahaaa This is certainly true, although you can tell. The rope rode tends to vibrate; whereas, the chain rode chatters. When we were off Green Cay recently, I showed this effect to one of the crew. Chain rattle at anchor off Green Cay... Bwahahahahahahahahahaaa I'm going to be getting some practice backing in the next couple of days. The Yamaha 30 we have needs to get put away in a different spot, and it's near impossible to turn it around after it gets to its side-tie. I've done it before, and it should be good practice. Bwahahahahahahaaaaaa..... Oh you need the "practise" all right! CM |
JG wrote:
Adding scope, assuming you had a proper amount to start, hardly ever helps. Its certainly no help if the bottom is too soft for the anchor. The one thing it does is give the anchor some time to dig in by itself. Hmmm... well, it's been my experience that sometimes a bit more chain on the bottom works, especially if there's a surg on. I guess it would give it time to dig in. This was a charter boat, so you got all chain rode and fortunately a windlass. As I say, if you had enough, maybe 4:1, to start, and it drags, more won't help. On the other hand, I often try to to set on minimal scope, maybe 3:1, and then lay out more after fully assessing the situation. Of course, sleeping on 10:1 scope is a bit easier than on 3:1! Fishfinders are great... I have one on my Cal 20. It was less expensive than a regular digital depthsounder. I'm not sure it would help with seeing the bottom that much... as it's the cheapest they make. I don't using need anything other than depth knowledge in the bay, and I don't need a sounder to tell me, because I know the area well. Our FF is not that expensive, but it has a fair "white line" bottom read. Its handiest in checking out new anchorages, and especially in Maine where a sandy area can easily have a large ledge in the middle. Who cares if you're staying one the boat for a lunch break? The Fortress is nice as a lunch hook because you can set it by hand and feel when it grabs. This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. This is certainly true, although you can tell. The rope rode tends to vibrate; whereas, the chain rode chatters. When we were off Green Cay recently, I showed this effect to one of the crew. Yes, sometimes you can tell from that - and sometimes I'll put a finger on the line while my wife is backing, hoping to feel the vibration or snag. But you don't get that through a 100 feet of chain to a soft bottom. |
Capt. Mooron wrote:
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. I disagree..... I can definitely feel a solid hook up with chain. Matter of fact I can see the chain become taut when the set is placed. If motoring I back down for 30 seconds at 1800rpm.... otherwise I drop on the downwind and pay enough to keep the rode straight.... then come about hard to whichever side the anchor is on and allow the momentum to back me down for the set. I get an 80% success rate and the failures are readily seen, felt and corrected by another attempt. Backing at 1800 for 30 seconds? You ought to be able to tell with a range if you're holding. I've seen people do the "downwind toss" - it looks slick when it works. But more often than not I'm trying to place the boat within 10 feet of a spot. I usually don't have the luxury of an open anchorage. I really don't know how you guys have such a hard time with CQRs... It's a great general purpose anchor. I might have dragged 4 times in the last 20 years... none critical. As I say, I like to end up in a predictable spot - the CQR felt like a crap shoot. As for dragging, in the 12 years I've used a Delta I've never dragged after setting. In fact, I never dragged with a CQR, I just had trouble setting it and didn't like the weight. Dragging 4 times doesn't sound that great to me. OK, there was one time with the Delta: we anchored for the afternoon and noticed a slow drag immediately. Since we were planning to lunch in the cockpit and relax for a hour or so, and had about 1000 yards to the lee shore, we let it be and enjoyed the changing perspective. We found out later we had anchored in soft spoil from the Boston Big Dig and nothing was going to hold. ... |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message Backing at 1800 for 30 seconds? You ought to be able to tell with a range if you're holding. Well a range is a given..... I'm making certain the hook is set and holding. I'll often fire up and back down on a set before turning in just to make certain my tackle is holding solid. I've seen people do the "downwind toss" - it looks slick when it works. But more often than not I'm trying to place the boat within 10 feet of a spot. I usually don't have the luxury of an open anchorage. I can't understand that... I can do it in a mooring field and have. A ten foot spot is the target but you still have a swing radius to contend with after the set. If you are on a downwind approach you should allow sufficent swing radius room for other vessels anchored in that area. The depth of the anchorage as well as the bottom conditions are important in deciding where and how to set... but I'm assuming anyone with experience has already taken these into consideration. As I say, I like to end up in a predictable spot - the CQR felt like a crap shoot. As for dragging, in the 12 years I've used a Delta I've never dragged after setting. In fact, I never dragged with a CQR, I just had trouble setting it and didn't like the weight. Dragging 4 times doesn't sound that great to me. Say what.... dragging 4 times out of maybe a thousand sets isn't bad at all Jeff. I find it hard to believe that you never dragged.... that's just unrealistic. OK, there was one time with the Delta: we anchored for the afternoon and noticed a slow drag immediately. Since we were planning to lunch in the cockpit and relax for a hour or so, and had about 1000 yards to the lee shore, we let it be and enjoyed the changing perspective. We found out later we had anchored in soft spoil from the Boston Big Dig and nothing was going to hold. Ah Hah! ... look Jeff, no matter how good you are at setting hook... you will eventually drag on occasion until you have a system set up that minimizes or neutralizes that possibility. CM |
Pretty funny... that's how you demonstrate your "superior" skills??? Backing
for 30 seconds... bwahahahaaaa You're worse than any I've seen here. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message news:aZpWd.3151$i6.1962@edtnps90... "Jeff Morris" wrote in message Backing at 1800 for 30 seconds? You ought to be able to tell with a range if you're holding. Well a range is a given..... I'm making certain the hook is set and holding. I'll often fire up and back down on a set before turning in just to make certain my tackle is holding solid. I've seen people do the "downwind toss" - it looks slick when it works. But more often than not I'm trying to place the boat within 10 feet of a spot. I usually don't have the luxury of an open anchorage. I can't understand that... I can do it in a mooring field and have. A ten foot spot is the target but you still have a swing radius to contend with after the set. If you are on a downwind approach you should allow sufficent swing radius room for other vessels anchored in that area. The depth of the anchorage as well as the bottom conditions are important in deciding where and how to set... but I'm assuming anyone with experience has already taken these into consideration. As I say, I like to end up in a predictable spot - the CQR felt like a crap shoot. As for dragging, in the 12 years I've used a Delta I've never dragged after setting. In fact, I never dragged with a CQR, I just had trouble setting it and didn't like the weight. Dragging 4 times doesn't sound that great to me. Say what.... dragging 4 times out of maybe a thousand sets isn't bad at all Jeff. I find it hard to believe that you never dragged.... that's just unrealistic. OK, there was one time with the Delta: we anchored for the afternoon and noticed a slow drag immediately. Since we were planning to lunch in the cockpit and relax for a hour or so, and had about 1000 yards to the lee shore, we let it be and enjoyed the changing perspective. We found out later we had anchored in soft spoil from the Boston Big Dig and nothing was going to hold. Ah Hah! ... look Jeff, no matter how good you are at setting hook... you will eventually drag on occasion until you have a system set up that minimizes or neutralizes that possibility. CM |
Are you on drugs? Where did I say I have or use a CQR?
-- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message news:RIoWd.15312$fc4.10673@edtnps89... "JG" wrote in message Fishfinders are great... I have one on my Cal 20. It was less expensive than a regular digital depthsounder. I'm not sure it would help with seeing the bottom that much... as it's the cheapest they make. I don't using need anything other than depth knowledge in the bay, and I don't need a sounder to tell me, because I know the area well. Yet you can't get a 40lb CQR to hold???.... Bwahahahahahahahahaaa This is certainly true, although you can tell. The rope rode tends to vibrate; whereas, the chain rode chatters. When we were off Green Cay recently, I showed this effect to one of the crew. Chain rattle at anchor off Green Cay... Bwahahahahahahahahahaaa I'm going to be getting some practice backing in the next couple of days. The Yamaha 30 we have needs to get put away in a different spot, and it's near impossible to turn it around after it gets to its side-tie. I've done it before, and it should be good practice. Bwahahahahahahaaaaaa..... Oh you need the "practise" all right! CM |
I don't think 4:1 is enough for decent scope... minimally 5 and up to 7 is
more typical. 4 is ok for lunch, even 3, but if it's overnight, longer is better. Since there's rarely room for 10, I've never done it. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... JG wrote: Adding scope, assuming you had a proper amount to start, hardly ever helps. Its certainly no help if the bottom is too soft for the anchor. The one thing it does is give the anchor some time to dig in by itself. Hmmm... well, it's been my experience that sometimes a bit more chain on the bottom works, especially if there's a surg on. I guess it would give it time to dig in. This was a charter boat, so you got all chain rode and fortunately a windlass. As I say, if you had enough, maybe 4:1, to start, and it drags, more won't help. On the other hand, I often try to to set on minimal scope, maybe 3:1, and then lay out more after fully assessing the situation. Of course, sleeping on 10:1 scope is a bit easier than on 3:1! Fishfinders are great... I have one on my Cal 20. It was less expensive than a regular digital depthsounder. I'm not sure it would help with seeing the bottom that much... as it's the cheapest they make. I don't using need anything other than depth knowledge in the bay, and I don't need a sounder to tell me, because I know the area well. Our FF is not that expensive, but it has a fair "white line" bottom read. Its handiest in checking out new anchorages, and especially in Maine where a sandy area can easily have a large ledge in the middle. Who cares if you're staying one the boat for a lunch break? The Fortress is nice as a lunch hook because you can set it by hand and feel when it grabs. This is one of the problems with a lot of chain: it makes it impossible to feel when the anchor grabs. This is certainly true, although you can tell. The rope rode tends to vibrate; whereas, the chain rode chatters. When we were off Green Cay recently, I showed this effect to one of the crew. Yes, sometimes you can tell from that - and sometimes I'll put a finger on the line while my wife is backing, hoping to feel the vibration or snag. But you don't get that through a 100 feet of chain to a soft bottom. |
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