WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two U.S. human rights groups on Tuesday sued Defense
Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, saying he first authorized and then failed to
stop torture of prisoners in Iraq .... "Secretary Rumsfeld bears direct and
ultimate responsibility for this descent into horror by personally
authorizing unlawful interrogation techniques and by abdicating his legal
duty to stop torture," said Lucas Guttentag, lead counsel in the case. The
suit against Rumsfeld focuses on an order he signed on Dec. 2, 2002 which
authorized new interrogation techniques for detainees in the "war on terror"
being held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. The techniques included "stress
positions," hooding, 20-hour interrogations, removal of clothing, exploiting
phobias to induce stress, prolonged isolation and sensory deprivation.
.......

The administration led by President Bush (news - web sites) says only a
handful of low-ranking personnel were involved.

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
. com...
Sounds like a frat initiation.

Vito wrote:
The techniques included "stress
positions," hooding, 20-hour interrogations, removal of clothing,
exploiting phobias to induce stress, prolonged isolation and sensory
deprivation. ......


Yes, I agree. My beef is that, having OK'd these "tortures", they let the
grunts take the heat for using them.

The techniques included "stress
positions," hooding, 20-hour interrogations, removal of clothing,
exploiting phobias to induce stress, prolonged isolation and sensory
deprivation. ......

"jlrogers±³©" wrote...
Sounds like a frat initiation.

Vito wrote:
Yes, I agree. My beef is that, having OK'd these "tortures", they let the
grunts take the heat for using them.


You don't mind that these "frat initiation" type procedures killed
number of prisoners?

It's not unknown for hazing to be fatal, but not dozens at one time &
place. And usually a murder prosecution follows.

My beef is that the current group in power have arrogated to themselves
the right to kill or imprison anybody they want, for any reason or no
reason, and use torture. That's generally not accepted among civilized
nations as the way "good guys" behave.

DSK

"DSK" wrote
You don't mind that these "frat initiation" type procedures killed
number of prisoners?

It's not unknown for hazing to be fatal, but not dozens at one time &
place. And usually a murder prosecution follows.

I'm unaware of any prisoners being 'hazed' to death, let alone dozens. The
news hasn't reported serious injuries let alone any deaths. The "tortures"
we've been crying about are putting fake menstrual blood on a prisoner
making him too unclean to pray, parading them naked before women, "harlots"
teasing them until they get an erection, standing hooded on a washtub having
been told that they will be electrocuted if they step off it - all things I
deem hazing instead of torture. If you know of more serious torture like
nails pulled out or bones broken please fill me in.


My beef is that the current group in power have arrogated to themselves
the right to kill or imprison anybody they want, for any reason or no
reason, and use torture. That's generally not accepted among civilized
nations as the way "good guys" behave.

Good beef.

Vito wrote:
I'm unaware of any prisoners being 'hazed' to death, let alone dozens

Well, you haven't been paying attention then. According to the Army
itself, "at least 25" fatalities have occured to prisoners being questioned.

I guess if the pro-Bush/Cheney flacks talk loud & often about how it was
only a little good clean fun then everybody will believe them.

Isn't it interesting how the Army, the Pentagon, the DIA, and other
military sources so often contradict the White House spinmeisters?

DSK

Yeah right, Sure Doug.. whatever... we know you are not bias and take
your word as proof positive.

Uh hu...please provide proof to your "at least 25" quote

Joe

Joe wrote:
Yeah right, Sure Doug.. whatever... we know you are not bias and take
your word as proof positive.

Uh hu...please provide proof to your "at least 25" quote


Of course, this is all from extreme left-wing news sources like AP,
Reuters, etc etc. Note almost all of them are quoting Army or DIA sources


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in614905.shtml
Note the date, the count goes up as time goes by

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGEUR450292004
scroll about 2/3 down... accounts of at least a dozen deaths

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=7609330
another dozen, this time in Afghanistan & Cuba... of course the Bush
Administration denies everything (sound familiar)

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nat...ck=3&cset=true
seven more, including a few suspicious "suicides"

Is that over 25 yet? This is from the first 3 or 4 pages of Google hits.
I was looking for the Army's report to Congress, which I heard on the
radio. It's in there somewhere I'm sure.

But hey, don't feel you have to believe me. It's all a lot of
America-hating libby-rull hogwash, isn't Joe?

DSK

First story said " No other confirmations of this story could be found"
So you would rather take the word of a dead know combatant that the
word of US officals...figures..

Second from Amnesty intl show more abuse to girls genitals in the UK
than anything going on in Iraq. And I noticed they had nothing to say
about the murders blowing up civilians, chopping off heads, and the use
of roadside bombs.


third said The U.S. military Saturday dismissed concerns expressed by a
U.N. rights investigator about allegations of prisoner abuse in
Afghanistan, saying an internal investigation had found that detainees
were treated humanely. I know you would rather take the word of a U.N.
thief and thats your right. But do not expect me to believe it. Pure
fantasy.

And the last one require me to Log in---Sorry that aint happening. But
so what if a few jihad morons off themselfs because they now know they
are defeated? We should pass out 10 foot sections of rope IMO. What...
you think we should build them rubber rooms?

Your right...looks like a bunch of American Hating libby-rull hogwash
and you went ofter it hook line and sinker.

None of it has any PROOF. And you never supplied a link to your
infamous "at least 25" quote.

And again you would rather dog the USA because of a few rotten apples
than condone the attack that killed 125 and wounded another 130. Did
you see the pictures on the news ?the walls splattered with body parts
and blood, piles of shoes blown off peoples feet, some still contains
feet, people digging thru blood soaked sreads of clothing to try to ID
the dead. All because scumball cowards want to stop democracy...

Sheeze and we are the bad guys right?

Grow Up Doug. Open your eyes.

Joe

Joe wrote:
None of it has any PROOF.

What do you expect Joe? Flaming letters in the sky?

I suspect you didn't read more than the first 3 sentences of each
article. They all referenced Army or DIA reports on prisoner abuse, wich
is why they showed up on a Google search for same.

... And you never supplied a link to your
infamous "at least 25" quote.


I guess you can't add, either. Two dozen here, half a dozen there, 3 or
4 more, ten more, etc etc... That certainly doesn't add up to "at least
25," which is the number I heard reported to Congress.

You might be more tempted to go for this one
http://library.nps.navy.mil/home/terrorism.htm#prisoner

although you'll have to wade through many many pages and do some
counting to add up the deaths. A few minutes reading saw mention of ten
or so deaths.

But hey, that's the dadgum libby-rull traitor Navy official web site!
Buncha left-wing hogwash, huh Joe!

And again you would rather dog the USA because of a few rotten apples

You mean like the rotten apples at the top who ordered the torture?


Sheeze and we are the bad guys right?


Torturing people certainly weakens our claim to be the good guys, which
is why I despise it.

Grow Up Doug. Open your eyes.


My eyes & ears are definitely open, Joe.

Why do you insist that everybody who disagrees with you must be evil
terrorist-lovers? Notice how the same name-calling is starting up
against the AARP... those dadgum libby-rull old people! They should be
tortured too!

I don't quite understand how you can fall for it over and over... unless
you have a deep psychological need to hate others.

DSK

And again you would rather dog the USA because of a few rotten apples
than condone the attack that killed 125 and wounded another 130.

Did you see the pictures on the news? The walls splattered with body
parts and blood, piles of shoes blown off peoples feet, some still
contains feet, people digging thru blood soaked sreads of clothing to
try to ID the dead. All because scumball cowards want to stop
democracy...


Sheeze and we are the bad guys right?

WTF Doug. You seems to have a need to hate our troops because of the
actions of a few. Yet you ignore the real Terror Killing, Maining, and
real abuses of the Iraqi people. Why is that Doug. Do you have a deep
psychological hate for our guys and a set of big ass blinders to the
real evil or what?

Joe