"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill effects on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe their study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue. More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands people wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe their study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue. More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands people wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue. More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands people wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

The flux must cross a closed conductor (loop) for current to flow. But that
is pertinent to a permanent magnet.

Atoms have magnetic fields from the electron orbits. The electron is in
motion around the nucleus in a closed path. The electron, through its
motion, is a current and generates a magnetic field. If enough atoms are in
correct alignemnt you have a net magnetic field.

"Scout" wrote in message
...
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.


"Scout" wrote in message
...
"JG" wrote in message
...
I believe the Swedes did a study that showed there were know ill
effects
on
people, but I would pass on it if it were overhead. I believe their
study
was directly overhead. 200 feet probably wouldn't be an issue. More
investigation is, of course, warranted.

Makes one wonder about the magic magnetic bracelets and bands people
wear
for pain management. Why would magnetic flux be a miracle cure when
produced
by a permanent magnet but not when produced by current flow?
Scout

Scout - you are correct. To create an electric current, the
magnetic field must be changing. This is basic and
fundamental to Maxwell's equations and should have been known
to those posting permanent magnets creating electricity.

Electrons moving inside 'shells' of the atom are totally
irrelevant to electricity. Electricity means electrons move
from atom to atom. It means the conductive path is a complete
circuit. A permanent magnet has no moving field; therefore
creates no electricity. Motion is also necessary.

Furthermore note many half truths. Where are the numbers?
Yes the sun can vaporize anything. Therefore we must keep
everything out of the sun? Too much salt kills. Therefore
the salt shaker should be treated as a hazardous material.
This is how others promote hype and fear. No place do these
fears apply to high voltage power towers. You would think
from these posts that those high voltage towers subject the
human body to 5 Telsa.

In one cited study, 200 mGauss caused changes to cellular
growth. That proves fields from electric lines will harm
humans. Wait. That field is less than the earth's magnetic
field. Therefore we are all being killed by the earth? This
is the type of hype and fear being promoted.

Worry. Where the wire bends, then fields are so much
stronger? How much stronger? Trivial stronger. Again
numbers would expose the hype. And hype it is. Posted is
proof that all electric fields kill? Why do trivial fields
from power lines kill when significantly larger fields (a
decade+ larger) from the CRT do not?

In another citation, field exceed 1 gauss before considered
dangerous. So where is this 1 gauss field from the high
voltage distribution line? It must be if the line is 230 Kv?
Again, posted was fear without considering what actual numbers
would be from that power line.

So what is cited as dangerous? Because fields generated by
a building transformer might be hazardous, then high voltage
transmission lines also must be dangerous? Again, notice
which electric lines are discussed. Not those high voltage
transmission lines. Lower voltage, high current electric
wires inside the building. Again there is this problem with
hyping all electricity as dangerous only because very high
magnetic fields MIGHT be dangerous.

Ball park numbers. Long before the location is dangerous, a
CRT or TV would have display problems. Now we have something
concrete to consider. IOW we have a ballpark number AND some
way to measure for that number.

More interesting. What fields are really deadly? Magnetic
or Electric? I wonder if those hyping fear even know the
difference. But most shocking is some ridiculous idea that a
motionless magnet creates electricity.

Get the gauss meter. Take some measurements. Suddenly much
of the hype being promoted here by some will disappear.
Amazing what a few numbers can do to make so many previous
posts irrelevant or misleading.

Scout wrote:
I thought the flux had to cross a conductor for current to flow.

"Bob Crantz" wrote in message
link.net...
A permanent magnet does have current flow.

The danger is from
Electromagnetic Radiation..
the subject and the danger to humans is well documented.

--
Longing to be closer to to the sun, the wind and the sea!
Spiritually at: Latitude 21 degrees 19' 9" North. _!_
Longtitude 157 degrees 56' 31" West. Aloha! ___o_(_)_o___
q

John W. Bienko wrote:
The danger is from
Electromagnetic Radiation..
the subject and the danger to humans is well documented.

At first glance this is a no-brainer - of course the problem is EM
radiation. What else? Falling towers?

However, some reports are claiming the real culprit is static
electricity. This could explain why there is so little evidence that
low frequency EM is dangerous.

Jeff,
I think the static theory ties in with the theory that the lines cause a
concentration of radon in homes near the lines. The way I read it the house
becomes like a grid in a giant electronic air cleaner. Don't think this was
verified though.
Scout


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
John W. Bienko wrote:
The danger is from Electromagnetic Radiation.. the subject and the danger
to humans is well documented.

At first glance this is a no-brainer - of course the problem is EM
radiation. What else? Falling towers?

However, some reports are claiming the real culprit is static electricity.
This could explain why there is so little evidence that low frequency EM
is dangerous.

On 2 Jan 2005 20:16:33 GMT, (John W. Bienko)
wrote this crap:


The danger is from
Electromagnetic Radiation..
the subject and the danger to humans is well documented.


You get more electromagnetic radiation from the sun.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Living near the end of the line isn't that good. At bends and the end of the
line the fringing fields (electric) are greater. There's also current
induced in the ground from the line. The crackling noise you hear is
electrical arcing which produces ozone. There's also current pulses from
lightning discharges on the line and there's the magnetic field.

The biological effects are many. At 60 Hz you have the alpha dispersion
dielectric of mammalian tissue. Your body has a dielectric constant of 6,000
to 30,000 at 60 Hz. That means your body easily polarizes to the 60 Hz field
and the electric field is increases in the body by the dielectric constant,
ie 6,000 - 30,000 times. The polarization is caused by large molecules in
the body moving to align with the applied electric field, much the way
magnets polarize with each other. Your bones are piezoelectric, squeeze
them and they generate electricity. Apply an electric field and they will
actually change length. If you receive an electric field pulse during the
refractory period of the cardiac cycle your heart will stop. People are
frequently killed by lightning strikes that never hit them, the induced
current from the nearby strike stop the heart. An intense 60 Hz electric
field can slow, stop or even reverse chemical wave propagation in the body.
Your heart and nerves work on chemical waves. That means it can change nerve
conduction, intracellular and extracellular potentials.

As far as verfiable real effects, people prone to siezures are very
susceptible in small magnetic and electric fields. Cardiac problems are also
verifiable, as are nerve problems. Other effects are probably long term and
are things such as stress, headaches, malaise, etc.

I also know of cases of people getting shocked from swing sets, bicycle
handle bars and lawn mower handles under powerlines. I bet a garden hose
would be fun, or think of being in a swimming pool full of chlorine ions. If
you move under the power line at speeds greater than 10 mph you can induce
tens of thousands of volts into yourself , car, bicycle, etc.

Read the CRC "Handbook of Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Fields" by
Polk and Postow for the physics and tissue measurements.

I can find plenty of other references too.

Hell is full of powerlines!

Amen!

Bob Crantz



"Scout" wrote in message
...
I'd like to hear opinions regarding supposed adverse health effects of a
close proximity to high tension wires.
I'm looking at a nice piece of land on the side of a mountain, about 200
feet from the lines. I'm inclined to think a cell phone is more dangerous.
I
know we have a few here who are knowledgeable in the field (no pun
intended).
Scout