Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

Think about the mechanics of both your statement and mine

OK

By using the topping lift for Hoisting the total strength of the Rig is
used (Shrouds, fore and back stays; In my case double lower shrouds to
keep Mast in line.

OK

With the Rigid Vang in Hoisting, you are putting Max Effort on the end
of the boom, supported at a point about 1/4 of the way back from the
Gooseneck.
That is an awful long unsupported Alum. Pole. (Hollow Aluminium Pole).

OK

Oh, are you saying that the boom might fold up? You're right, but it
shouldn't unless it was too weak to start with. Is your boom the same
spar section as your mast? If so then it probably isn't strong enough to
use with a solid vang anyway.

Think about this, Thom... the force on the end of the boom is going to
be very great when sailing hard... enough to lean the boat over a lot.
If the boom end can take that force, then it should take that same force
in the form of a weight heavy enough to heel the boat over.



In operation, the force of the sail is at least two points on the boom,
with the main sheet countering the force on the boom. Often assisted by
the Vang. Often over assisted by a Hydra. Rigid Vang.

I'm sure, as an Engineer, you can admit to the difference

Yep. The difference is that in one case, you have put the boom & mast
under compression by tensioning the whole rig. In the other, you have
put the boom under a torsion load, and on a much smaller part of the
mast, and none on the rig (which actually means less stress on the hull).


If you were careening the hull, you wouldn't weight the end of the boom
without the back-up of the topping lift and/or a halyard to call on the
full strength of the total rig.

Probably not to careen the boat, but if I had a solid vang suitable for
hard sailing, I would not hesitate to hoist a weight on the boom that
would heel the boat far enough to put the boom in the water.

... The topping lift is a solid connection.

???

The halyard is a varying force

???


Just some things to remind you of.

I'm not knocking the Rigid Vang. I wish I could fit one on my boat but
the Pilothouse makes that impossible. I'm thinking I might be able to
use a KICKER. I'm pointing out that PITA top lift still is a worthwhile
addition.

In some cases, yes very much. In others, it's just in the way. My point
is that if a boat & it's rig is engineered to take proper advantage of a
solid vang, then you do not need a topping lift. Do not. Period.

If the rig is noodley and engineered to transfer compressive loads
through a series of components, then a solid vang can be added for
convenience but it will not be as useful. If the rig has a very low boom
or a pilothouse, there's not room for a proper vang anyway... but you
can probably do a lot of the same sail trim functions with a wide traveler.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King