"katysails" wrote in message

Walk a mile in that lady's son's shoes, or mine, before you pass judgment

Been there, done that, still doing that....and we were the ones that had
to
press the decision, just like your family did, to choose the nursing home
over the possibility;ity of her burning herself and others to death (she
would walk away from the stove and forget it was on...her daughter's
solution was to unplug the stove so then she blew up 3 microwaves in a
month...) Guilt...over doing what is right and best, and BTW, what's
right
and best is oftentimes not what the person has desired at all, is wasted
effort and self-flagellation. Rather feel that even though his spirits
were
down, he was in a safe, controlled environment. Mr. Sails mom ended up
suffering terribly because of his sister's stubbornness. She broke her
leg
to such a degree that she can never walk again and has been wheelchair
bound...she had to have three surgeries to put it back together again...we
had pressed for a safer environment than the independent living place she
was in for a year, to no avail....when you are close to a situation, it is
hard to stay objective...Clancy's sister is still in denial and won't
accept
that her mother has Alzheimer's...has tried to have them decrease her
Nemenda (which at least keeps her stable). Yes, we have walked that mile,
and several more, so I know whereof I speak.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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"katysails" wrote in message

Walk a mile in that lady's son's shoes, or mine, before you pass judgment

Been there, done that, still doing that....and we were the ones that had
to
press the decision, just like your family did, to choose the nursing home
over the possibility;ity of her burning herself and others to death (she
would walk away from the stove and forget it was on...her daughter's
solution was to unplug the stove so then she blew up 3 microwaves in a
month...) Guilt...over doing what is right and best, and BTW, what's
right
and best is oftentimes not what the person has desired at all, is wasted
effort and self-flagellation. Rather feel that even though his spirits
were
down, he was in a safe, controlled environment. Mr. Sails mom ended up
suffering terribly because of his sister's stubbornness. She broke her
leg
to such a degree that she can never walk again and has been wheelchair
bound...she had to have three surgeries to put it back together again...we
had pressed for a safer environment than the independent living place she
was in for a year, to no avail....when you are close to a situation, it is
hard to stay objective...Clancy's sister is still in denial and won't
accept
that her mother has Alzheimer's...has tried to have them decrease her
Nemenda (which at least keeps her stable). Yes, we have walked that mile,
and several more, so I know whereof I speak.

Not even close. You are the antagonists, not the bearer of the lonely
burden of championing the elder individual's wants and desires for the
remainder of her life. You feel no guilt because you stand apart from the
woman's champion ( the "stubborn" sister) and cast aspersions, rather than
make decisions which may or may not be popular with the remainder of the
family. And you've only had to support your husband's beliefs on this
matter. It's radically different when it's your own father or mother.

My father didn't blow up microwaves, nor was he even a threat to his own
life. He was simply not the astute and brilliant man he had been during his
entire life, prior to his illness. And my family and his local friends
simply couldn't deal with that. Essentially they wanted him out of the way,
if for no other reason than to remove a subtle reminder of their own
imminent mortality and morbidity. When he was in the facility (5 years),
less than 10% of his many friends, and none of his extended family (the
antagonists) made even one visit to this man who spent his life loving and
helping them. If there are assholes here, it was those who wanted him
locked away, out of sight, so their fragile existences wouldn't be tarnished
by the sight of a once-vital man decaying in front of their eyes.

You still have a long way to go to walk in my shoes, or those of the woman's
son. But your tendency to judge him an asshole doesn't surprise me. I'm
sure most of the antagonists in my father's case referred to me in similar
terms.

Max

"katysails" wrote in message
| That's absolutely ridiculous, I agree. He should have called the media
| right there and then....immediacy sometimes works best....why they are
| pursuing it is a wonder to me....surely they must know that public
sentiment
| is going to slay them?

H-m-m-m... Odd you should say that since following your pretentious
Christian values it should be her son that is burned at the stake.

So when my dad screws up and does odd things like leaving the fridge open,
the phone off the hook and leaving the garden hose running it's a sign I
should have him removed from his family and placed with strangers to dose
him with narcotics and possibly abuse him while we contently go on with our
lives like he never existed... only to murmur some kind words at his
funeral? What a shallow and superficial position.... no doubt based on your
profession.

I hope this is exactly what you face in your future Katy..... because I've
visited my friend's parents in those "homes"... and it seems they get more
visits from me, than their own children. I have several friends who work at
such institutions...... and collectively to a woman.... none would send
their parents there.That to me speaks volumes since 3 of the places are
supposedly quite posh..... the clients are miserable and lonely.

My parents won't be sent to a home.... they'll end their days with family...
we'll see to that. I'll rise to my responsibilities with honour. I'm certain
looking after your MIL would have gotten in the way of your gardening and
sailing wouldn't it? What a pathetic and easy method to slough off your
responsibilities. It's not for their best interest... not in a long shot.

I'm disappointed with you Katy... I imagined you capable of more depth and
less self interest.

Nursing Homes... pah! Another method for the rich and shallow to buy their
way out of their responsibilities. Cha-Ching...

CM

It was explained to them at the time and they could have taken action then.
A short time later they attempted intimidation tactics to scare off the
family involved.

No Scout... this is just a sign of the fact we are having an effect on their
policy. I plan to make certain we have a written policy change from them...
apologies are easy when you don't mean them and dropping the charges are
easier when your lawyers advise you to.

Drop this?... no way!.... We'll stay the course until the white flag is
hoisted and the vessel stands down, comes about and meets our demands.

CM


"Scout" wrote in message
...
| I hope you will accept their "apologies" gracefully. What can be gained by
| anything else? If you were to play hardball at this point, it will look
bad
| later when they say they "offered apologies and dropped charges, but
nothing
| was good enough."
| "After all," they will say, "it is our responsibility to minimize pricing
by
| controlling loss, for the sake of our customers, no matter the reason."
| Let it go.
| Scout
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| You bet....
|
| I've just heard they seem to have changed their tune and want to
"talk"...
|
| They are willing to drop the charges if we will "cease & desist" this
| campaign.
|
| Apparently this is not the first time such an incident has transpired
with
| this firm!!
|
| You can guess our reply....
|
| CM
|
| "katysails" wrote in message
| ...
| | Are you allowed to picket in Canada?
| |
| | --
| | katysails
| | s/v Chanteuse
| | Kirie Elite 32
| | http://katysails.tripod.com
| |
| | "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should
relax
| | and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
| |
| |
| |
| | ---
| | Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
| | Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
| | Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004
| |
| |
|
|
|
|

wrote in message
...
| On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:28:42 -0400, "katysails"
| wrote:
|
| Are you allowed to picket in Canada?
|
| If you picket, it will never heal.

Then I'll lance this Boil..... and pour salt to the wound!

CM

I could have dumped my father into a nursing home at the first sign of
trouble

And that attitude is the problem....true..some people "dump" their relatives
in nursing homes to get rid of the problem. That makes them assholes just
like the guy who was unaware of what was going on because he was too
involved with everything else. We see Mom every day. We make sure the
nursing staff knows we are totally supportive and totally pro-active. They
are the experts. We are the family. They serve us and Mom and we make sure
that our expectations for her care are met. It isn't easy. But that's the
way it is. We sat in courtrooms for an entire winter fighting a stupid
family member making sure that Mom's environment would forevermore be safe.
I see what other family's do. I'm part of the interior process. People
need to wake up and realize that with an aging population that gets older
and older, our generation is going to have to bear the brunt of eldercare
for our parents. Used to be people just died off at a certain age...people
don't die as quickly now and they have to be taken care of.

Unless you've walked in my shoes, or those
of the woman's son, you have no right to judge.

Max

And like I said...I have...and have the blisters and corns to prove it.
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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I'm not going to drag the scenario of what we went through on this public
forum, Max, but suffice it to say, the "sister protector" as you called her
was after one thing...money...and if you sit through Care Conferences that
involve family members, that is what motivates most people in their
decisions about nursing homes, health care, etc. Mom's money is now being
used to take care of her. We do not care if there is nothing left over when
she goes. Unfortunately, that was not the case on the other side. the
other thing is that she lives in Minnesota, removed from the situation. And
like I said, we see Mom every day. We go in at mealtime and feed her. I do
some of her personal care. So, in retrospect, your judgment of me is about
par with mine of you...and that's the last of this discussion.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004

"katysails" wrote in message

I'm not going to drag the scenario of what we went through on this public
forum, Max, but suffice it to say, the "sister protector" as you called
her
was after one thing...money...and if you sit through Care Conferences that
involve family members, that is what motivates most people in their
decisions about nursing homes, health care, etc. Mom's money is now being
used to take care of her. We do not care if there is nothing left over
when
she goes. Unfortunately, that was not the case on the other side. the
other thing is that she lives in Minnesota, removed from the situation.
And
like I said, we see Mom every day. We go in at mealtime and feed her. I
do
some of her personal care. So, in retrospect, your judgment of me is
about
par with mine of you...and that's the last of this discussion.

Yes, sadly I'm aware that money often plays a part in such situations.
We're facing this now with Janie's mother (Alzheimer's, in a facility) and
her father (living independently). We, like you, don't give a rodent's
posterior if he spends all his money caring for her and himself. To the
contrary, we believe, as good conservatives do, that the gummint (read: us
taxpayers) should not have to bear that burden. But my in-laws see things
differently, and would love to cash in someday. Such was not the case in
Dad's situation. Neither my brother nor I wanted his money. So that was
not an issue.

Nuf said.

Max

"katysails" wrote in message

People
need to wake up and realize that with an aging population that gets older
and older, our generation is going to have to bear the brunt of eldercare
for our parents.

Even more to the point, our kids need to realize that about us, their
parents.

Max

Well, I can understand your anger. If you've got the time to fight this one
that's great - but then why not go bigger? Why not go for changes in
Canada's protection laws for people with mental difficulties. What will stop
this from happening at some other store? It seems like you have the
necessary motivation, so why not think bigger?
Look at what happened to 86 year old reporter Mike Wallace in New York
yesterday (arrested and hand cuffed for having the audacity to ASK QUESTIONS
to a cop!). The abuse paradigm in our police systems has indeed trickled
down to all areas of security. Imagine 2 angry cops man-handling an old man
like that, and then reporting that he "was disrespectful and appeared close
to lunging." Jesus Christ, the paperwork they write can make anyone look
like a violent criminal, deserving of the beating the cops give them. Here's
what the Rev Casy said in "The Grapes of Wrath" when he was asked why the
cops arrested him: "I talked back."
John Steinbeck knew what he was talking about.
Scout

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
It was explained to them at the time and they could have taken action
then.
A short time later they attempted intimidation tactics to scare off the
family involved.

No Scout... this is just a sign of the fact we are having an effect on
their
policy. I plan to make certain we have a written policy change from
them...
apologies are easy when you don't mean them and dropping the charges are
easier when your lawyers advise you to.

Drop this?... no way!.... We'll stay the course until the white flag is
hoisted and the vessel stands down, comes about and meets our demands.

CM


"Scout" wrote in message
...
| I hope you will accept their "apologies" gracefully. What can be gained
by
| anything else? If you were to play hardball at this point, it will look
bad
| later when they say they "offered apologies and dropped charges, but
nothing
| was good enough."
| "After all," they will say, "it is our responsibility to minimize
pricing
by
| controlling loss, for the sake of our customers, no matter the reason."
| Let it go.
| Scout
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
| ...
| You bet....
|
| I've just heard they seem to have changed their tune and want to
"talk"...
|
| They are willing to drop the charges if we will "cease & desist" this
| campaign.
|
| Apparently this is not the first time such an incident has transpired
with
| this firm!!
|
| You can guess our reply....
|
| CM
|
| "katysails" wrote in message
| ...
| | Are you allowed to picket in Canada?
| |
| | --
| | katysails
| | s/v Chanteuse
| | Kirie Elite 32
| | http://katysails.tripod.com
| |
| | "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should
relax
| | and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
| |
| |
| |
| | ---
| | Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
| | Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
| | Version: 6.0.726 / Virus Database: 481 - Release Date: 7/22/2004
| |
| |
|
|
|
|