wrote in message
| That's because you are always looking at the stern of other boats when
| going downwind in light air. You also probably think that boats
| sailing ahead of you downwind in light air are gradually shrinking.

I keep hearing people say that...... but it never happens that way. I
recently had to mount two braking chutes to my stern rail so as to slow down
and let the other boats catch up. ;-)

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Good Grief Doug.... it's not like I haven't sailed a few ULDBs in my
life.... but I certainly don't consider it a bow wave when it's actually a
ripple. I've owned a Laser and a Hobie 18... no bow wave... a small 2 inch
ripple maybe... but no wave I can assure you.

Heck, a Soverel 33 will move at 4 or 5 knots in almost no wind at all,
if well sailed. Maybe it's just making a ripple IYHO? Just a few
weekends ago I watched a Kirie Elite 30-something (looked to be about 35
feet) and a C&C 34+ tearing around the racecourse in winds of about 3
knots and chop.


There is also the point to be made of bow entry and hull shape that has a
lot to do with how much of a visible disturbance your vessel makes
underway.....

Yeah, there's that. But when the boat reaches some significant percent
of hull speed, it's going to making waves not ripples.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

| Heck, a Soverel 33 will move at 4 or 5 knots in almost no wind at all,
| if well sailed. Maybe it's just making a ripple IYHO? Just a few
| weekends ago I watched a Kirie Elite 30-something (looked to be about 35
| feet) and a C&C 34+ tearing around the racecourse in winds of about 3
| knots and chop.

The hell you say..... 4 or 5 kts in no wind!!! Okay Doug.... put down the
Jack Daniels and back away from the bar!! ;-)
I have no experience with the Kirie Elite but I have been on a C&C 34 in
Vancouver. There is no way a C&C 34 can be described as "tearing around" at
3 knots... even with no chop!

| Yeah, there's that. But when the boat reaches some significant percent
| of hull speed, it's going to making waves not ripples.

Okay let's explore that point.... down wind with the wave train at let's
average it about a 2ft wave height and a 6 ft between crests. The boat is
doing lets say half an average hull speed [6kts]... on a dead downwind
run....so we'll call it 3 kts speed. The wave train is moving much faster
than that but can hardly be noticed on the 4 feet of freeboard. Now you mean
to tell me that you can see a bow wave in those conditions? Okay... maybe
when you come down onto a passing wave train.... but that's a momentary
situation.

To form a bow wave... I believe you need to be "pushing" water... not
parting it.

Anyhow... the floor is yours... I'll just stroll over to the bottle of Jack
Daniels here ;-)

CM

Fin Keelers never venture far from the harbour and generally
loose not only their bravado but their bowel content when faced with a real
ocean.
|


That'll no doubt explain the design of all off shore monohull racing
yachts...

Cheers

Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

| Was the Irwin sailing upwind under bare poles?

No... but it may as well have been considering the speed it was making going
downwind.



But you've never sailed faster than windspeed. By the way, when you you
going to get your defective log fixed?


Cheers

We regularly sail faster than true wind at wind speeds of 4-6 knots on a
broad reach with the gennaker. It's not at all unusual in performance
yachts and almost a boring fact of life for big cats.

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Capt. Mooron wrote:

A BOW WAVE!!!! Come on Loco..... don't expect us to swallow that
line of
hogwash. I've never seen more than a ripple from any vessel downwind in
light air.


You need to get out more.

Tell us how fast you sail with a chute in 5 kts of wind???


Probably somewhere around 4 knots. I know of boats that can sail at 5.5
or better, with a spinnaker, in 5 knots of true wind (hint... think
apparent wind).

Fresh Breezes... really!
Doug King

Capt. Mooron wrote:

A BOW WAVE!!!! Come on Loco..... don't expect us to swallow that line of
hogwash. I've never seen more than a ripple from any vessel downwind in
light air.

The only possible explanation for this observation -and we all know CM
doesn't exaggerate about things (except maybe his sexual prowess) is
that the boats he observed _must_ have been sailing away from him!

Bwhahahhahahahahahah

Cheers

Capt. Mooron wrote:

wrote in message

| Meanwhile, you will also note that my boat's PHRF is generally grouped in
with
| boats with 3 or 4 more feet of waterline than my boat. My PHRF is 168,
what's
| yours? Do they rate you in with school busses and dumptrucks?

More like a train.... I raced with a PHRF of 170.


That explains a lot. How did you get such a gift PHRF -by winning races?

Cheers

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

but I have been on a C&C 34 in
Vancouver. There is no way a C&C 34 can be described as "tearing around"
at
3 knots... even with no chop!

you don't know which year/model Doug was talking about, do ya?

Scotty

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Donal" wrote in message

| Rubbish! My 32 footer would thrash you on any point of sail!

Bah!... the only part of that statement worth retaining is the "My 32
footer","thrash" & "Rubbish"
Upwind you might have a chance of keeping up....downwind you'd be lost far
behind me.

The opposite is true. Going upwind, my lack of momentum means that the
waves slow me down, whereas you would be able to maintain your 4.5 kts.

Going downwind, however, would be an entirely different matter. You
wouldn't see me for dust! Your pathetic little crab crusher would be
bouncing around in the waves while I would be surfing away - at high speed!



13kts sustained average over 2 miles..... stick that in your French Fried
Fin Keeler!

Bwahahahaha! Pull the other one - it's got bells on! Delivery trips on
the back of a truck don't count.

Speed over ground doesn't count either.




|
| In my humble experience, the owners of crab crushers are "all mouth and
no
| trousers". They choose their boats on the basis that they are
incredibly
| seaworthy - and then they refuse to set sail in anything more than a F4.
| They never see hull speed because they are afraid to venture out in the
| conditions that would enable them to do hull speed.

This is obviously a situation unique to the British.... my findings
illustrate that Fin Keelers never venture far from the harbour and
generally
loose not only their bravado but their bowel content when faced with a
real
ocean.

I can just imagine Ellen Mc Arthur sailing around the world in a crab
crusher?????

Really,... Mooron, you need to get a grip on reality. When was the last
time that a crab crusher took part in a "Round the World" race?





|
| I, on the other hand, am the proud possessor of a boat that really *is*
| able to exceed hull speed.

So can most margarine containers..... when push comes to shove they flip
&
fold faster than superman on laundry day!

Fin Keelers..... Pah!

Regards


Donal
--