Pony Express wrote:
I would never put an instructor with 15 - 25
students. We max at 10 students / instructor,
plus we give each instructor a knowledgeable
assistant.

Yep... one of the few educational priniciples that seems to work across
the board is a lower student/teacher ratio. I don't like sailing classes
that pack six or eight students into a boat with an instructor.

I've also seen sailing instructors that get it wrong, or teach very
impractical methods. One of the worst things is a teacher who says "Put
the helm to starboard... no no no, the other way, I meant port." Or one
who is afraid of heeling and starts screaming in panic (yes I know of a
sailing class where this happens regularly).

I also wouldn't recommend the way I learned... sailing with father,
uncles, grandfather, who were all excellent sailors but whose
instructional method was to grunt once in a while when things were OK,
and then smack you upside the head if you did something wrong.


I hired a girl last year as an assistant who was a
weak sailor, but I saw great potential. Trained
her, got her racing. This year she's probably my
best instructor; maybe because it's all still so
fresh for her, but she gets it across to even the
slowest kids.

So how long do you think it'll be before she leaves you and gets a job
crewing on a maxi sled?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Bart Senior" wrote in message . net...
katy,


Bart,

You seem able to judge all these women.

Take a step back, and judge yourself.

Kiplings Said

IF..

If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and
blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream
and not make dreams your master;

If you can think
and not make thoughts your aim,

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to
make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn
of pitch-and toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word
about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew,
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says
to them: 'Hold on!

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings--nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And...which is more...
you'll be a Man, my son.

************
my two cents added below

"And then........... you can deal with a real woman"

Joe



Sounds like you did a "letter perfect" job parenting. I'd put you
in the top 1%. That hardly qualifies you to make rude comments
about my upbringing, when you know nothing about it.

These are not mutually exclusive facts.

You are atypical. I'd guess less than 25% of the households
are what I'd call healthy.

You make the big mistake of relating my general comments
to your own personal life, not the world at large. That is
just you bragging, and also reacting without thinking. Reacting
without thinking is an emotional characteristic of women.

My friend Steve once told me, "Never date a woman with more
problems than you have". If I took his advice I'd never have a
date.

I've dated many women and few of them were "normal" or
I should say "healthy", since normal--meaning the statistical
"mean" would have to denote weird.

I can trace back most of their adult issues to their childhood.
It is very difficult for anyone to take a good hard look at
their souls to figure out what is damaged and needs to be
fixed. And fewer people can repair the damage themselves.
Compare the number of women in therapy to the number of
men in therapy.

The sad fact is this: There are large numbers of screwed up
women that were the direct result of having screwed up parents
and less than ideal upbringings. The 60% divorce rate backs
this up. It takes to parents AND a healthy home to raise a child
properly.

This applies to men also, but as females are more emotional,
I submit to you, the toll taken on girls is higher. Women tend
to marry younger than men and this is a factor also. Women
with problems, that have children before working out their
problems, are suddenly confronted with new burdens which
demand most of their attention. Some never work out their
problems. The words arrested development come to mind.

My mother grew up in the depression and still makes every
decision based on short term cost. Long range thinking is
beyond her ability. I can imagine the difficulty she faced as
the oldest of eight.

One woman I know has three children by three fathers. I pointed
out she was not a good decision maker. "I was young", she said.
And most recently, "It was an accident." I suspect her last
pregnancy was deliberate and a trap that failed to catch her
intended victim, the little girls father. At 40 she is understandably
desperate to find a man.

I know a woman, in Sacramento, with five children, by
five fathers She has never been married and lives on welfare.
What do you think her childhood life was like?

My poor niece has not been helped by seeing her father
married three times, being uprooted uncountable times, and
missing probably two full years of her education due to
relocations. Huge amounts of effort cannot correct this sort
of damage.

This sort of thing is very common. Remember that 60%
divorce rate?

I've dated women that were abandoned by their fathers.
I can think of at least four women I've dated that would
torpedo a healthy relationship because it didn't "feel" right.
Normal was not normal to these women. Even though
I loved them and could see they had enormous empathy
and wonderfully loving hearts I could not tolerate the crazy
things they would do every few weeks for no apparent
reason. It took me years to figure out what was really going
on. You have to be tough and walk away from relationships
like that.

I've dated many women that were either sexually abused
by relatives, or sexually assaulted as teenagers. The
sexually abused ones were easy to spot. They had little
ambition and passively accepted of everything. The
ones sexually assaulted as teenagers carried this around
for a long time--one could not even look a man in the eye
if he was interested in her. When I met her she was 35
and had not dated since she was raped at age 15.

One lawyer I dated last year thought she was sexually abused
by her father. She admitted she was a sex addict. This could be
good I thought, until I researched it. I finally figured out the reality
of the situation. She would screw other men, if the man she
was dating did not pay enough attention to her. Negative
attention was better than no attention at all. She puts the bulk
of her income and free time into paying therapists to pay attention
to her. All this, I suspect, because her father did not pay enough
attention to her when she was young.

One women I dated was a pathological liar. It took me a while
to figure that one out. I later learned her father would not stay
home and decided after a few years of marriage that he was "gay".
This girl would do or say anything to get her father to stay home,
and it never worked. It turned her into someone who would say
what you wanted to hear, never the truth.

I dated one woman that thought she could achieve world peace
through chanting mantras. Her father, a famous competitor of
DC's was divorced several times and died auto racing when she
was young. I can only imagine what her childhood was like
without her father.

I've dated women that thought it was evil to cut down trees.
WTF? I suggested she give up books and go live in a cave.

I've dated women that I later found out were infertile. Based
on information I've gathered and talking to my doctor, in at
lease one case this was the result of having too many abortions
What sort of standard did their parents set? It is a good example
of Catholic sex guilt. Don't use birth control wait until guilt
forces you to have an abortion instead.

The number of weirdo women out there out in the world far
out-numbers the "normal" ones by a huge margin--especially
in California. The world turns to the east and all the lose nuts
roll west and end up in California.

I've seen lots of women falling in love with alcoholics and drug
addicts. Why would they do that? Perhaps one or both
parents had alcohol problems? Who knows? I can only
guess. Often these end up in divorce and the woman is then
raising children alone and substituting one sort of damage for
another in a child's life.

I've met more than a few women that were ignored by
their fathers, never hugged by their fathers, who today don't
know how to display affection to a man. One woman I
dated was only hugged by her father twice in her life!
What do you think that does to a girl as an adult woman?
I'll tell you. Tis one broke things off whenever a man treated
her nice--it was just not normal for her. She never did get
married, she is raising a daugher by herself. Another one I
know woman is cold and distant and doesn't know how to
hug or kiss, and her one marriage lasted less than a year.
In the last seven years, she has slept alone every night.

I know a lovely single woman that is hooked on a married
man and doesn't have the sense to let go. Her father died
when she was an infant and her mother is bitter and lonely
and impossible to please. This poor gal tries and tries and
never succeeds--that is "normal" for her.

I'm a normal man from what you would call a normal family.
And I'll tell you this. I don't meet any normal single women.
The normal women tend to marry and stay married. What
does that leave on the market? The rejects. The weirdoes.
The welfare cases. The alcoholics. The party girl druggies.

Let me correct myself. I meet lots of "normal" divorced
women. The only issue with these is they never have time
to date and put a man 9th or 10th on their priority list.

The single women I meet, in their 30s, that haven't been
married are not married for a reason! Most of these I've
found were raised by single moms. Some of them put
everything into their career and don't think about family
until it is too late. Others never can find what they want
because they never had a father figure to use as a role
model for picking a husband. I've passed on many women
who couldn't make up their minds. What can you do?
I'm not going to hang around forever. I'd rather go sailing
and have fun than deal with someone else's huge unsolvable
problems.

A woman does the choosing, if they don't chose in time,
they stay single. Try to explain that to a woman and she
will get angry when you point it out. So why bother. A
man has to move on.

I know what I'm talking about katy. I am not a sad, sad
person. I'm a normal healthy man who has eyes to see what
is around me. I'm not the cause, only a witness.

One final note. Any man will tell you, if you pay attention
to a woman she will lose interest, and if you ignore women
then they suddenly get interested. Most women aren't smart
enough to understand that they react without thinking.

Many times this leads them to make bad decisions on marriage.
for the reasons I posted earlier--the young girls interest in boys
and having children outweighs logic and common sense--and
it's a good thing it does, because it ensures the propagation of the
human race. If you want grandchildren, you are more likely
to have them if you have daughters.

Even the most perceptive woman I know has a blind spot. One
friend was unhappy with her sex life, and divorced her husband.
She has gone through dozens of lovers in the last 2 years, tried
lesbianism, partner swapping, nudism, and has had probably
had 300 dates in that time, and complains she can't find the man
she is looking for. I like her as a friend, and shocked her when I
told her I found her lifestyle a turnoff, and considered her high risk.
She claims she gets tested often for AIDs and thinks that is the
answer. What do you think? Here is a woman that is deeply
analytical and atypical.

Should I go on and tell you about the number of stable
relationships I've seen where the man yells at the woman
constantly? Can you explain that one? I can.

None if this is how we would like it in a perfect world. Don't
blame me if the world is not perfect. I didn't make it.

katy,

I think YOU owe ME an apoloGY.

Bart

katysails wrote
Bart,
Like I said, you're a sad, poor man. I can remember back when I was a
teenager and your descriptions don't ring a bell at all.... but I can tell
you plenty of stories about the "focused" boys whose only goals were to
get
into someone's pants or to see how much beer they could swill....I was in
the Honor's program....everyone I ran around with were eggheads...we
thought
a great time was tutoring reading comprehension down in the ghetto...
My daughter's a mechanical engineer....my grand-daughters were not allowed
to watch network television at home until they turned 10 and 12 and then
only with adult supervision. They do not have access to the Internet
without my daughter's presence in the room, for homework research only,
and
they do not have cell phones or even the regular phone to fall back on.
In
fact, my daughter and her husband just moved out of the subdivision
environment so the girl's wouldn't be influenced by peer pressure but have
the larger responsibilities of country living.
All I can think is that you either had a very weak mother, or really
strange
sisters to think that your viewpoints are the average...they are not.

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



---
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Our ratio and setup in the bay is a bit different. (Nothing to do
with the original student, as that class is on a lake.) We typically
have 12-15 students with one instructor, but each boat (Capri
16.5s) has an assistant, so we'll have 2/3 students and an
assistant on each boat. The instructor gives the main instruction,
and the assistants back him/her up, with the instructor checking
their work and giving individuals help. Seems to work pretty
well.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Pony Express wrote:
I would never put an instructor with 15 - 25
students. We max at 10 students / instructor,
plus we give each instructor a knowledgeable
assistant.

Yep... one of the few educational priniciples that seems to work across
the board is a lower student/teacher ratio. I don't like sailing classes
that pack six or eight students into a boat with an instructor.

I've also seen sailing instructors that get it wrong, or teach very
impractical methods. One of the worst things is a teacher who says "Put
the helm to starboard... no no no, the other way, I meant port." Or one
who is afraid of heeling and starts screaming in panic (yes I know of a
sailing class where this happens regularly).

I also wouldn't recommend the way I learned... sailing with father,
uncles, grandfather, who were all excellent sailors but whose
instructional method was to grunt once in a while when things were OK,
and then smack you upside the head if you did something wrong.


I hired a girl last year as an assistant who was a
weak sailor, but I saw great potential. Trained
her, got her racing. This year she's probably my
best instructor; maybe because it's all still so
fresh for her, but she gets it across to even the
slowest kids.

So how long do you think it'll be before she leaves you and gets a job
crewing on a maxi sled?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Sound advice. Probably, it's worth taking it yourself.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
katy,


Bart,

You seem able to judge all these women.

Take a step back, and judge yourself.

Kiplings Said

IF..

If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and
blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream
and not make dreams your master;

If you can think
and not make thoughts your aim,

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to
make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn
of pitch-and toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word
about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew,
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says
to them: 'Hold on!

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings--nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And...which is more...
you'll be a Man, my son.

************
my two cents added below

"And then........... you can deal with a real woman"

Joe

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message ...
Sound advice. Probably, it's worth taking it yourself.

I've been married to a real woman for 20 years.
And you?

If..... is my favorite Kipling poem I live by it.

Joe




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
katy,


Bart,

You seem able to judge all these women.

Take a step back, and judge yourself.

Kiplings Said

IF..

If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and
blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream
and not make dreams your master;

If you can think
and not make thoughts your aim,

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to
make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn
of pitch-and toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word
about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew,
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says
to them: 'Hold on!

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings--nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And...which is more...
you'll be a Man, my son.

************
my two cents added below

"And then........... you can deal with a real woman"

Joe

Your mom doesn't count.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Sound advice. Probably, it's worth taking it yourself.

I've been married to a real woman for 20 years.
And you?

If..... is my favorite Kipling poem I live by it.

Joe




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. net...
katy,


Bart,

You seem able to judge all these women.

Take a step back, and judge yourself.

Kiplings Said

IF..

If you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and
blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;

If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream
and not make dreams your master;

If you can think
and not make thoughts your aim,

If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;

If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to
make a trap for fools,

Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn
of pitch-and toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word
about your loss;

If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew,
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says
to them: 'Hold on!

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings--nor lose the common touch,

If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,

If all men count with you, but none too much;

If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,

Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,

And...which is more...
you'll be a Man, my son.

************
my two cents added below

"And then........... you can deal with a real woman"

Joe