"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...


impotent dictator?
this impotent dictator has supported the very culture that these
terrorists
live in and thrive on.

You have no evidence to back up your point of view.



they didn't just materialize out of thin air with grenade launchers
strapped
to their backs.

Correct! They appeared AFTER the Allies took over.

You cannot cite a single example of Al Q'aeda activity in Iraq when Saddam
was in charge. I bet that you are too stupid to realise why Saddam didn't
tolerate Al Q'aeda. [Hint] ... Iraq was a *secular* state.


when reduced to it base issues - i see 2 possiblities (offer another)
damned if we do
Correct.
damned if we don't
Incorrect.






i also disagree with the idea that we have done nothing to lessen the
threat.
the installation of a ( hopefully) more reasonable governing body, counter
to the culture that spawned terror is how it will happen, if at all.
and this is being done.


the threat is here forever.

Nah. Once Bush is gone the threat will begin to recede. I can't believe
that you will elect such an imbecile again.

the difference now is that it is recognized and can be adressed. (see 9/11
commission report for one example)

ok....how do we confront this problem to "lessen the threat"?
raffle humvees off in iraq?
food stamps?
welfare programs?
rock concerts for world peace?
give them ganz?

oh ......change our culture.

Yes.

get rid of our sailboats?

No.
get rid of our suv's?

Yes.
get rid of our need for oil?
Reduce it.

live in abject poverty?

No.
and buy swords?

Guns are better.

the points above are deliberate in their obvious absurdity
neither work.

Invading the wrong country doesn't work, either.


the first relies on american arrogance/ignorance to buy our way. (its
happened before)
the second relies on changing american culture and trusting the
terrorists.
(not likely)
a the third possiblity is we leave the middle east all together and
hide--it was impossible to do in the 20th century--still impossible in the
21st century.(which also means abandoning israel--do you really believe
that
is possible?)

It's possible - but I don't think that you should do it.

Regards




Donal
--

Donal, on behalf of all Americans, I apologize for our government's
mistake. I can offer no reasonable excuse, since those in power
clearly knew what they were doing. They lied to us as well. Please
accept my apology. Unfortunately, there's not a damn thing I can
do about it, except attempt to throw out the slimy *******s this
coming November.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Donal" wrote in message
...

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...


impotent dictator?
this impotent dictator has supported the very culture that these
terrorists
live in and thrive on.

You have no evidence to back up your point of view.



they didn't just materialize out of thin air with grenade launchers
strapped
to their backs.

Correct! They appeared AFTER the Allies took over.

You cannot cite a single example of Al Q'aeda activity in Iraq when Saddam
was in charge. I bet that you are too stupid to realise why Saddam didn't
tolerate Al Q'aeda. [Hint] ... Iraq was a *secular* state.


when reduced to it base issues - i see 2 possiblities (offer another)
damned if we do
Correct.
damned if we don't
Incorrect.






i also disagree with the idea that we have done nothing to lessen the
threat.
the installation of a ( hopefully) more reasonable governing body,
counter
to the culture that spawned terror is how it will happen, if at all.
and this is being done.


the threat is here forever.

Nah. Once Bush is gone the threat will begin to recede. I can't believe
that you will elect such an imbecile again.

the difference now is that it is recognized and can be adressed. (see
9/11
commission report for one example)

ok....how do we confront this problem to "lessen the threat"?
raffle humvees off in iraq?
food stamps?
welfare programs?
rock concerts for world peace?
give them ganz?

oh ......change our culture.

Yes.

get rid of our sailboats?

No.
get rid of our suv's?

Yes.
get rid of our need for oil?
Reduce it.

live in abject poverty?

No.
and buy swords?

Guns are better.

the points above are deliberate in their obvious absurdity
neither work.

Invading the wrong country doesn't work, either.


the first relies on american arrogance/ignorance to buy our way. (its
happened before)
the second relies on changing american culture and trusting the
terrorists.
(not likely)
a the third possiblity is we leave the middle east all together and
hide--it was impossible to do in the 20th century--still impossible in
the
21st century.(which also means abandoning israel--do you really believe
that
is possible?)

It's possible - but I don't think that you should do it.

Regards




Donal
--

On Behalf of ME! ... I can't believe you are apologizing to a Brit.....
they were your war time buddies.... most substantial ally.... the best ally
you had..... they backed your government's misrepresentations and abetted
your invasion of a sovereign nation that posed you no direct threat... for
the sole purpose of a misguided and ill planned strategy at eliminating
terrorism! The direct result of your also ill conceived sponsorship of
Osama in the first place.

I once discussed a problem with a friend regarding a rude and unruly
neighbour. I told my friend to build an ugly fence... a very ugly fence.....
that would force his neighbour to build an expensive new fence on his side
to maintain property value. He could then remove his ugly fence and
effectively have his rude neighbor fence himself in.

Enjoy your Orange Alert!

Freedom...Phf-f-f-t-t-t!!!

CM






"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| Donal, on behalf of all Americans, I apologize for our government's
| mistake. I can offer no reasonable excuse, since those in power
| clearly knew what they were doing. They lied to us as well. Please
| accept my apology. Unfortunately, there's not a damn thing I can
| do about it, except attempt to throw out the slimy *******s this
| coming November.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

Enjoy your Orange Alert!

sounds like a suggestion for a new drink at the yacht club
fair winds
gf.

once again, i'll state it clearly:
i did not support this war from the beginning
ok?

now that that is out of the way, lets continue.............

if you read my post, the point of it was to deal with the present...........
as we are here in the present.
what do you suppose we do?
whether you or i, agree or disagree with what has taken place with this war
is somewhat (not completely) irrelevant.

care to present any ideas or are you still interested in being critical of
past actions?

i am patiently waiting for someone to provide a possiblity.
and it ain't Kerry.
have not heard one possiblity yet.
i'm also not holding my breath, yet it would be a pleasure to hear something
from someone that holds some value that takes place in the present.

fair winds.......(was a great weekend sailing)

gf.

Why? It was morally wrong to lie to the American people about
it. We should end it as quickly as possible.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...
once again, i'll state it clearly:
i did not support this war from the beginning
ok?

now that that is out of the way, lets continue.............

if you read my post, the point of it was to deal with the
present...........
as we are here in the present.
what do you suppose we do?
whether you or i, agree or disagree with what has taken place with this
war
is somewhat (not completely) irrelevant.

care to present any ideas or are you still interested in being critical of
past actions?

i am patiently waiting for someone to provide a possiblity.
and it ain't Kerry.
have not heard one possiblity yet.
i'm also not holding my breath, yet it would be a pleasure to hear
something
from someone that holds some value that takes place in the present.

fair winds.......(was a great weekend sailing)

gf.

hey one more point: don't you guys read!
what i said: saddam supported the *culture* that terrorists live in
the *argument* for evidence was presented in the preivous posts
gf.

(think i'll work on the "orange alert" mix tonight)

.. impotent dictator?
this impotent dictator has supported the very culture that these
terrorists
live in and thrive on.

"You have no evidence to back up your point of view."

Saddam was the antithesis of religious fanatacism...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"gonefishiing" wrote in message
...
hey one more point: don't you guys read!
what i said: saddam supported the *culture* that terrorists live in
the *argument* for evidence was presented in the preivous posts
gf.

(think i'll work on the "orange alert" mix tonight)

. impotent dictator?
this impotent dictator has supported the very culture that these
terrorists
live in and thrive on.

"You have no evidence to back up your point of view."

On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:30:27 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Saddam was the antithesis of religious fanatacism...

It is a bit difficult to follow gf's reasoning, as his inaccurate
statements are so vague it is hard to understand his points

I was listening to a discussion the other day that might clarify this
particular point, though. Saddam was a bit like the right wing
dictators we used to "support" in Latin America and elsewhere.. They
were considered to be an effective means of countering "communism",
which seemed to be considered the greater of the two evils.

Well, Fishboy has KF'd me, so I can say whatever I want!

Absolutely right on about Saddam. I have no problem with
us getting rid of him. I have a problem with how we were
mislead to do it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"felton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 23:30:27 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
wrote:

Saddam was the antithesis of religious fanatacism...

It is a bit difficult to follow gf's reasoning, as his inaccurate
statements are so vague it is hard to understand his points

I was listening to a discussion the other day that might clarify this
particular point, though. Saddam was a bit like the right wing
dictators we used to "support" in Latin America and elsewhere.. They
were considered to be an effective means of countering "communism",
which seemed to be considered the greater of the two evils.