"katysails" wrote in message
...
Vito:
Much of the Old Testament, especially the first 5 books, are allegorical
in
nature and not meant to be historical renderings or archives at all (watch
the fundamentalists squirm...).

True, but I doubt that the authors who redacted the original into the OT
version intended your interpretation. You may have read where Abraham whups
the robber-kings to save his brother? In the original version he returns all
the spoils to their owners. In the redacted version he first gives 10% to
the priest then the rest to its owners.

My own personal take on Adam and Eve and ....

Yes, it is sublime - the idea that mankind was forced out of Eden because we
discovered the notion of good vs evil that other animals lack, and have been
torturing ourselves and each other over it ever since. Most folks are too
busy acting it out to even notice the message.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"katysails" wrote in message
...

True, but I doubt that the authors who redacted the original into the OT
version intended your interpretation. You may have read where Abraham whups
the robber-kings to save his brother? In the original version he returns all
the spoils to their owners. In the redacted version he first gives 10% to
the priest then the rest to its owners.


I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

Jeff Morris wrote:
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Morris wrote:
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.


Lilith is never mentioned in The Bible (except possibly in Isaiah, but there it
is translated as "great owl"). There is a Lilith mentioned in the Talmud,
seeming a recasting of an old Babylonian myth, of a winged nymphomaniac mother
of demons, but she is never mentioned in the context of Genesis. And there is a
midrash about a first Eve, but she is not associated with Lilith, and there is
no way of knowing if it is an ancient (pre-biblical) tale or made up when it was
written, roughly in the third century, or shortly thereafter.

The two stories got combined in the 10th century "Alphabet of Ben Sira" (a very
odd work, possibly a parody or even an anti-Semitic satire) and then get picked
up in later Kabalistic works. However, there is no evidence that this was
actually part of an "original" bible.

On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:27:14 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

Jeff Morris wrote:
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

It doesn't.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"DSK" wrote
I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

IIRC neither the Book of Genesis found in xian bibles nor the Pentateuch
mentions Lillith (You'll have to look to their precursors). That's
understandable. Remember, very ancient peoples and even some fairly modern
ones (eg Australian Aboriginies) had yet to discover the male role in
procreation and instead believed the female spontaniously created life.
Hence their primary gods were female and their societies matrilineal. The
change to patriarchal gods and societies was still underway when the Hebrew
version that became the basis of Genesis was redacted from earlier creation
myths so Lillith became a demon vs a goddess.

Read the examples I offered to Jeff.

On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:10:53 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
wrote this crap:


True, but I doubt that the authors who redacted the original into the OT
version intended your interpretation. You may have read where Abraham whups
the robber-kings to save his brother? In the original version he returns all
the spoils to their owners. In the redacted version he first gives 10% to
the priest then the rest to its owners.


I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?


I have an original, and it's autographed by the author.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

The Torah...the first 5 books of the Bible....the Hebrew is much different
than the translation and has been much edited to suit the politics of
following generations....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

I mispoke...the Talmud, not the Torah....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

The Talmud is not "the original bible," it is a series of discussions by rabbis
compiled during the second through sixth centuries. Actually, there are two
versions, one called the Jerusalem Talmud, the other the Babylonian Talmud.
These, together with a few other compilations, form the Rabbinic Writings that
are the basis for modern Judaism.

The Talmud is layered on top of the "Mishna," the "Oral Teachings" of Moses,
which traditionally is just as important as the written teachings (the Torah).
The Mishna was written down about 200 CE, and this started the process of
commentary that became the Talmud. However, it is often hard to tell what parts
of the Talmud are actually ancient traditions, and what was more contemporary.
Given that the Talmud was compiled roughly a thousand years after the Torah was
written down, its real hard to claim it pre-dated the Bible in any sense. The
scope of the Talmud is vast, covering all aspects of life, some parts still seem
fresh today, other parts were already archaic when it was compiled.


"katysails" wrote in message
...
I mispoke...the Talmud, not the Torah....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein