"Joe" wrote
Satan introduced sickness, pain, suffering and death into the creation
as a consequence of that first sin. ....

Not so Joe! In the original Genesis myth, the Elohim created everything
including Adam and Lillith, as equals in their own images. Elohim YHWH
wanted both as pets and, noting Adam's gullibility, he made Eden as an
enticing cage. Lillith refused, went off on her own and gave birth to sons
and daughters who later married Adam and Eve's kids. But Adam opted for the
easy life. He got horny but YHWH couldn't create life so he cloned Eve out
of Adam.

Satan was another Elohim who didn't approve of YHWH's schemes so he went to
visit Adam and discovered that YHWH had dishonestly told them that they
would die is they became wise and immortal - ie if they ate of the trees
that provided a knowledge of good and evil and of everlasting life. Satan
told Eve that YHWH had lied so she and Adam ate the fruit and came to know
that good and evil existed in the world. This freaked YHWH out! "Oy! What if
they also become immortal!? They'll be like Elohim, instead of like pets!!"
So he set up a mechanism "flaming sword" to assure that didn't happen.

That version was redacted to suit the patriarchal Hebrew society when it got
written into The Book of Moses and thence into the Old Testament but both
agree that Adam's punishment was having to work for a living and that Eve's
was painful childbirth - NOT sickness, pain, suffering and death. It was
your god YHWH who tried to keep Adam and his clone ignorant and it was YHWH,
not Satan, who forbid them everlasting life.(Gen 3:22, 23).

Adam and Eve's descendents must have inherited a double dose of Adam's
gullibility since Eve was his clone because they continually support
churches that claim to know good and evil and offer eternal life, the only
things their god (Elohim) forbid them to have. It follows that Judaism,
Christianity and Islam all do Satan's work - right? Meanwhile, children of
the Goddess, called Lillith and 100 other names, are spared this
foolishness.

You may note that this tale parallels evolution - peoples who stayed in
comfortable climes (the garden) never developed as far as those who left.
For example, nobody living in a paradise tamed elephants and horses.

Vito:
Much of the Old Testament, especially the first 5 books, are allegorical in
nature and not meant to be historical renderings or archives at all (watch
the fundamentalists squirm...). My own personal take on Adam and Eve and the
tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is this. Mankind evolved....one day he
(the universal "he") developed a conscience....whammo...good and evil now
exist in the mind of man....He can no longer live in innocence and naivety
but must be ever aware that there are consequences to every action and that
he is responsible...voila...he is now "different" than the other
animals....He is evolved....

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

"katysails" wrote in message ...
Vito:
Much of the Old Testament, especially the first 5 books, are allegorical in
nature and not meant to be historical renderings or archives at all (watch
the fundamentalists squirm...). My own personal take on Adam and Eve and the
tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil is this. Mankind evolved....one day he
(the universal "he") developed a conscience....whammo...good and evil now
exist in the mind of man....He can no longer live in innocence and naivety
but must be ever aware that there are consequences to every action and that
he is responsible...voila...he is now "different" than the other
animals....He is evolved....


Well said Katy!


Joe

"katysails" wrote in message
...
Vito:
Much of the Old Testament, especially the first 5 books, are allegorical
in
nature and not meant to be historical renderings or archives at all (watch
the fundamentalists squirm...).

True, but I doubt that the authors who redacted the original into the OT
version intended your interpretation. You may have read where Abraham whups
the robber-kings to save his brother? In the original version he returns all
the spoils to their owners. In the redacted version he first gives 10% to
the priest then the rest to its owners.

My own personal take on Adam and Eve and ....

Yes, it is sublime - the idea that mankind was forced out of Eden because we
discovered the notion of good vs evil that other animals lack, and have been
torturing ourselves and each other over it ever since. Most folks are too
busy acting it out to even notice the message.

"Vito" wrote in message
...
"katysails" wrote in message
...

True, but I doubt that the authors who redacted the original into the OT
version intended your interpretation. You may have read where Abraham whups
the robber-kings to save his brother? In the original version he returns all
the spoils to their owners. In the redacted version he first gives 10% to
the priest then the rest to its owners.


I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

Jeff Morris wrote:
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Morris wrote:
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.


Lilith is never mentioned in The Bible (except possibly in Isaiah, but there it
is translated as "great owl"). There is a Lilith mentioned in the Talmud,
seeming a recasting of an old Babylonian myth, of a winged nymphomaniac mother
of demons, but she is never mentioned in the context of Genesis. And there is a
midrash about a first Eve, but she is not associated with Lilith, and there is
no way of knowing if it is an ancient (pre-biblical) tale or made up when it was
written, roughly in the third century, or shortly thereafter.

The two stories got combined in the 10th century "Alphabet of Ben Sira" (a very
odd work, possibly a parody or even an anti-Semitic satire) and then get picked
up in later Kabalistic works. However, there is no evidence that this was
actually part of an "original" bible.

On Thu, 27 May 2004 13:27:14 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

Jeff Morris wrote:
I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?

I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

It doesn't.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"DSK" wrote
I'm also curious about where the Book of Genesis mentions Lillith.

IIRC neither the Book of Genesis found in xian bibles nor the Pentateuch
mentions Lillith (You'll have to look to their precursors). That's
understandable. Remember, very ancient peoples and even some fairly modern
ones (eg Australian Aboriginies) had yet to discover the male role in
procreation and instead believed the female spontaniously created life.
Hence their primary gods were female and their societies matrilineal. The
change to patriarchal gods and societies was still underway when the Hebrew
version that became the basis of Genesis was redacted from earlier creation
myths so Lillith became a demon vs a goddess.

Read the examples I offered to Jeff.

On Thu, 27 May 2004 12:10:53 -0400, "Jeff Morris"
wrote this crap:


True, but I doubt that the authors who redacted the original into the OT
version intended your interpretation. You may have read where Abraham whups
the robber-kings to save his brother? In the original version he returns all
the spoils to their owners. In the redacted version he first gives 10% to
the priest then the rest to its owners.


I'm curious, where can I get a copy of the "original" version?


I have an original, and it's autographed by the author.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!