The windows on my boat need to be replaced. They're fitted into those
old-style channelled rubber strips that are used to hold vehicle windows in
place - the rubbers are rather perished and the acrylic is clouded and
crazed. I'm considering putting tinted acrylic on the outside of the cabin -
any thoughts on the wisdom of this approach?

By fitting on the outside surface, I have the opportunity to change the
window shape - here's a couple of side views of my vast, ocean-going,
18-foot mega-yacht, showing the original window shape, and the proposed new
shape...

http://community.webshots.com/album/136291482TgUkPQ


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

Wally, I see nothing wrong with you alternate, more modern window. Looks good,
though I think I prefer the original by a slight margin.

RB

Bobsprit wrote:
Wally, I see nothing wrong with you alternate, more modern window.
Looks good, though I think I prefer the original by a slight margin.

The new shape makes the boat look half its age. :-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

I like the new version you've designed. It has better lines and looks more
rakish.
I would think you would want to cut the opening to match and place the
tinted panel on the inside though if you intend to reseal the works with a
rubber strip again.

Will you be beveling the edges of the new acrylic panels prior to outside
mounting to reduce water entrapment and possible leak development?

CM




"Wally" wrote in message
...
| The windows on my boat need to be replaced. They're fitted into those
| old-style channelled rubber strips that are used to hold vehicle windows
in
| place - the rubbers are rather perished and the acrylic is clouded and
| crazed. I'm considering putting tinted acrylic on the outside of the
cabin -
| any thoughts on the wisdom of this approach?
|
| By fitting on the outside surface, I have the opportunity to change the
| window shape - here's a couple of side views of my vast, ocean-going,
| 18-foot mega-yacht, showing the original window shape, and the proposed
new
| shape...
|
| http://community.webshots.com/album/136291482TgUkPQ
|
|
| --
| Wally
| www.artbywally.com
| www.wally.myby.co.uk/music
|
|

Capt. Mooron wrote:

I like the new version you've designed. It has better lines and looks
more rakish.

It came out better than I was expecting. I also removed the stanchions and
lifelines, so it looks cleaner in the doctored photo.


I would think you would want to cut the opening to match ...

Not keen on that - I'd be concerned about weakening the structure. I think
there's a (hollow GRP?) beam on the inside, forward of the leading edge of
the existing windows - the mast is deck-stepped.


... and place the
tinted panel on the inside though if you intend to reseal the works
with a rubber strip again.

I wouldn't be using the same type of rubber strip (where the window is cut
smaller than the hole), but something flat that goes between the surfaces.
Someone mentioned (elsewhere) that butyl tape between the acrylic and the
cabin wall would make a good seal. I've seen this stuff mentioned as sealing
in building work that I've been involved with, so I guess it's pretty good -
not as sticky as mastic, but tackier than plain rubber. It should apply in a
nice straight line, rather than squidge like gooey sealer would, and it
should be easier to remove if I ever have to replace a window.


Will you be beveling the edges of the new acrylic panels prior to
outside mounting to reduce water entrapment and possible leak
development?

Yes, they'd be fared towards the surface of the cabin side, with the sealing
strip brought to the edge of the acrylic. Screws/bolts at about 2" centres.
The likely shape is a bevel, with the remaining angle radiused - the
smoother the transition, the less likely it is to be painful if anyone takes
a knock against the edge (works on guitar scratchplates, so...).


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

Capt. Mooron wrote:
I like the new version you've designed. It has better lines and looks
more rakish.


Hmm-mm. Is "rakish" good? To me it sounds like a lawn care product....


Wally wrote:
It came out better than I was expecting. I also removed the stanchions and
lifelines, so it looks cleaner in the doctored photo.

Yes but it would look better without those in any case. A better
comparison would be with (harder to draw in, I know)

I would think you would want to cut the opening to match ...


Not keen on that - I'd be concerned about weakening the structure. I think
there's a (hollow GRP?) beam on the inside, forward of the leading edge of
the existing windows - the mast is deck-stepped.

I'd be very afraid of weakening the structure... DON'T cut that beam...
in fact don't cut within 3 or 4 inches of it. The fiberglass flange
where it joins the coach roof molding is sure to be a structural
element. You can add fiberglass channels around the edge of the new port
opening for stiffness, but it'd be a major engineering job to design &
build a new mast step support.

The plus side of bigger windows is more light inside (the tint looks
cool, but don't overdo it). The downside is a weaker coach roof.

I'd put the acrylic on the outside, beveled, onto a mated surface around
the edge of the port, and use small screws only to hold it in place
while the 5200 dries.

The more time & work you put into the edges, both the seating to the new
port and the channel around the inside, the stronger & tighter it will
be. I've seen this kind of thing done well on a few boats... seen a
botched "quickie" job dozens of times (including on a boat we were
considering buying until we got a close look at this and many other
owner customized bits).

Hope this helps
Doug King

DSK wrote:

Yes but it would look better without those in any case. A better
comparison would be with (harder to draw in, I know)

(With?) I've added a photo showing the original window shape, but with the
stanchions and lifelines removed.


I'd be very afraid of weakening the structure... DON'T cut that
beam... in fact don't cut within 3 or 4 inches of it. The fiberglass
flange where it joins the coach roof molding is sure to be a
structural element. You can add fiberglass channels around the edge
of the new port opening for stiffness, but it'd be a major
engineering job to design & build a new mast step support.

I'm not planning to cut the opening at all. The new shape is basically a
go-faster stripe.


The plus side of bigger windows is more light inside (the tint looks
cool, but don't overdo it). The downside is a weaker coach roof.

The reason for going for a tint is to disguise the outline of the aperture
underneath - I may darken the GRP around the aperture if it shows through
the tint. It could do with some more light inside, and I'm looking into the
possibility of putting a Houdini-type hatch on the cabin roof forward of the
mast. It has a little 'ventilight' thing there at the moment. I think some
MkI Foxcubs (the Super model, perhaps) were fitted with a Houdini in this
location, so I think it will be okay structurally.


I'd put the acrylic on the outside, beveled, onto a mated surface
around the edge of the port, and use small screws only to hold it in
place while the 5200 dries.

Is that an adhesive sealant? If so, would there be problems with trying to
remove a window later? I was thinking of tacky butyl tape (squidgy and
compressible) with lots of screws.


The more time & work you put into the edges, both the seating to the
new port and the channel around the inside, the stronger & tighter it
will be. I've seen this kind of thing done well on a few boats...
seen a botched "quickie" job dozens of times (including on a boat we
were considering buying until we got a close look at this and many
other owner customized bits).

Well, the boat's a bit tatty and isn't really worth the effort to bring it
to anything approaching a concours finish. Neat, waterproof, and
maintainable are the main aims with the windows.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 17:04:02 +0100, "Wally"
wrote:

DSK wrote:

Yes but it would look better without those in any case. A better
comparison would be with (harder to draw in, I know)

(With?) I've added a photo showing the original window shape, but with the
stanchions and lifelines removed.


I'd be very afraid of weakening the structure... DON'T cut that
beam... in fact don't cut within 3 or 4 inches of it. The fiberglass
flange where it joins the coach roof molding is sure to be a
structural element. You can add fiberglass channels around the edge
of the new port opening for stiffness, but it'd be a major
engineering job to design & build a new mast step support.

I'm not planning to cut the opening at all. The new shape is basically a
go-faster stripe.


The plus side of bigger windows is more light inside (the tint looks
cool, but don't overdo it). The downside is a weaker coach roof.

The reason for going for a tint is to disguise the outline of the aperture
underneath - I may darken the GRP around the aperture if it shows through
the tint. It could do with some more light inside, and I'm looking into the
possibility of putting a Houdini-type hatch on the cabin roof forward of the
mast. It has a little 'ventilight' thing there at the moment. I think some
MkI Foxcubs (the Super model, perhaps) were fitted with a Houdini in this
location, so I think it will be okay structurally.


I'd put the acrylic on the outside, beveled, onto a mated surface
around the edge of the port, and use small screws only to hold it in
place while the 5200 dries.

Is that an adhesive sealant? If so, would there be problems with trying to
remove a window later? I was thinking of tacky butyl tape (squidgy and
compressible) with lots of screws.

That is how the cabintop portlights were installed on my last boat.
They leaked, but mostly from the forward end where the portlights came
to a fairly sharp point and where the curve of the cabintop was most
pronounced. The portlight kept wanting to "straighten out" away from
the cabintop and at the same time there was not enough lexan there for
a screw. If your setup wouldn't create as much stress, it might work.



The more time & work you put into the edges, both the seating to the
new port and the channel around the inside, the stronger & tighter it
will be. I've seen this kind of thing done well on a few boats...
seen a botched "quickie" job dozens of times (including on a boat we
were considering buying until we got a close look at this and many
other owner customized bits).

Well, the boat's a bit tatty and isn't really worth the effort to bring it
to anything approaching a concours finish. Neat, waterproof, and
maintainable are the main aims with the windows.

Wally,

I think butyl tape would be a good way to go. I have a Catalina 30 MK-II and
the windows are sealed that way. No leaks, and I'm fairly sure this is the
original bedding. I also used it to replace some silicone bedding that was
used to seal a portlight located above the quarterberth (but was leaking),
and the butyl tape seems to have taken care of the leak just fine.

Check out McMaster-Carr (www.mcmastercarr.com) as a good source for the
stuff.

I also read on a list that C&C used butyl tape to seal their hull to deck
joints, though I do not know whether this is so.

Regards,
Alan Gomes


"Wally" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:

Yes but it would look better without those in any case. A better
comparison would be with (harder to draw in, I know)

(With?) I've added a photo showing the original window shape, but with the
stanchions and lifelines removed.


I'd be very afraid of weakening the structure... DON'T cut that
beam... in fact don't cut within 3 or 4 inches of it. The fiberglass
flange where it joins the coach roof molding is sure to be a
structural element. You can add fiberglass channels around the edge
of the new port opening for stiffness, but it'd be a major
engineering job to design & build a new mast step support.

I'm not planning to cut the opening at all. The new shape is basically a
go-faster stripe.


The plus side of bigger windows is more light inside (the tint looks
cool, but don't overdo it). The downside is a weaker coach roof.

The reason for going for a tint is to disguise the outline of the aperture
underneath - I may darken the GRP around the aperture if it shows through
the tint. It could do with some more light inside, and I'm looking into
the
possibility of putting a Houdini-type hatch on the cabin roof forward of
the
mast. It has a little 'ventilight' thing there at the moment. I think some
MkI Foxcubs (the Super model, perhaps) were fitted with a Houdini in this
location, so I think it will be okay structurally.


I'd put the acrylic on the outside, beveled, onto a mated surface
around the edge of the port, and use small screws only to hold it in
place while the 5200 dries.

Is that an adhesive sealant? If so, would there be problems with trying to
remove a window later? I was thinking of tacky butyl tape (squidgy and
compressible) with lots of screws.


The more time & work you put into the edges, both the seating to the
new port and the channel around the inside, the stronger & tighter it
will be. I've seen this kind of thing done well on a few boats...
seen a botched "quickie" job dozens of times (including on a boat we
were considering buying until we got a close look at this and many
other owner customized bits).

Well, the boat's a bit tatty and isn't really worth the effort to bring it
to anything approaching a concours finish. Neat, waterproof, and
maintainable are the main aims with the windows.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 13:43:41 +0100, "Wally"
wrote:

The windows on my boat need to be replaced. They're fitted into those
old-style channelled rubber strips that are used to hold vehicle windows in
place - the rubbers are rather perished and the acrylic is clouded and
crazed. I'm considering putting tinted acrylic on the outside of the cabin -
any thoughts on the wisdom of this approach?

By fitting on the outside surface, I have the opportunity to change the
window shape - here's a couple of side views of my vast, ocean-going,
18-foot mega-yacht, showing the original window shape, and the proposed new
shape...

http://community.webshots.com/album/136291482TgUkPQ

I think the new ones look better. On my previous boat, a C&C 33-II,
the portlights were long and "rakish" and were attached to the outside
of the cabin top. Because there was a bit of curve to the side of the
cabin top, the portlights were required to stay in place with a bit of
bend, which they did not want to do. The previous owner had replaced
them once and there were a number of small screws which attempted to
hold the portlights in place, in addition to a sealant and tape and
they still leaked. Actually if you read the C&C mail list, leaking
portlights are a huge topic of conversation. I think anytime you get
too long a portlight with no frame, you may be asking for trouble,
especially if there is any bend required. If your mounting surface is
fair and flat, you are in much better shape.

Hopefully I misread Doug's post about using 5200 for mounting the
windows. My current portlights, which are frameless, are installed
with GE Silpruf, which seems to work well. These portlights are
installed into a routed groove around the opening so that the
plexiglass sits into the groove, just flush with the cabintop, and
has a bead of Silpruf around both the inside and the outside. There
are 4 small screws which are angled into the top and bottom which
basically hold the portlights in place while the Silpruf cures. These
screws don't penetrate the plexiglass, they just hold the portlights
at the edge. These portlights don't leak.

Good luck. I like the design, but I would be careful about doing too
much cutting for structural reasons.