"JAXAshby" once again demonstrated his stupidity with:
jeffie, no RDF on any sailboat gave "accuracy" to withing 5*, let alone 2*.
Your statement just shows you have no idea how RDF works.

jaxie, you've never seen one, let alone used one.


wondering if you've passed Portland or Monhegan the RDF
is very handy.

that is "5 degrees" by your estimation above? yeah, un huh.

Don't go to Maine, jaxie, it would be too scary for you.


millions of people sailed before the GPS was invented.

No kidding?

Nope. Millions.


wanna take a guess how many of those who wandered around in a fog with granite
ledges in the water made port? For your information, approximated 25% of ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four. That is what fog and
granite
is for, to sink ships. ask around with the old timers and see what they did
say 40 years ago.

They used RDF for approaches. I think you're have a little problem with dates,
jaxie. RDF was not used (certainly not commonly) in the "last 50 years of sail
powered shipping." For instance, the last coffee-carrying sailing ship docked
in New York in 1914. The first radiobeacons were not set up until the '20's.
The automated lighthouse radiobeacons soon followed. It was because the US
adopted radiobeacons that it had one of the best safety records in the middle of
the last century.


btw, well into the 1970's and even into the 1980's a cheap tranistor radio
from
Radio Schack was considered an acceptable alternative to the commercially
available RDF units for recreational sailboats. Why a cheap radio from Radio
Schack? Because the cheap radio had a more directional antenna than the
better
quality radios. I believe Hal Roth used a Radio Schack radio into the 1970's
and carried it as back up even later.

Good for him. What's your point? You seem to be agreeing that it is useful.
But you're wrong that the pocket radios were preferable, that's just a myth.
There were certainly people saying "I can do just as well with my pocket radio"
but have used both, I can tell you it isn't true.


Getting "within 20 seconds of turning back" is
NOT something that happens to an experienced mariner in this situation.

really? you mean that career merchant marine was inexperienced?

The fact that he took you as a crew is proof enough for anyone here that he was
a desperate loser!

I kinda think
of him as a bit more seaman than some clown plowing through the granite ledges
of Maine listening to rock music radio stations (and a couple of dit dah dah
dit dah stations) to determine where he was.

Then why was he lost with 3 GPS's and a Loran on board? It sure seems like I
had a better idea of where I was.

You keep trying to prove to us that you're a great mariner because you were near
someone else that you think was great. But your stories just show that you had
no idea what was going on. You were scared ****less thinking you were about to
hit "rocks" that don't exist.

If you were within "20 seconds of turning back" it means you thought you were
within a few hundred yards of disaster. But the charts are pretty clear: as
long as you had 20 fathoms of water you weren't within 10 miles of a hazard.
Even at 10 fathoms, you'd stay miles from the shoals. You weren't "threading
the needle" in some DownEast tickle, you were rounding Diamond Shoals Light - 15
miles offshore, 8 miles from the shoals, with an 18 mile light. You had 3
GPS's, a Loran, and I assume a depth sounder. If you had the least doubt as to
where you were, you're a damn fool! If you were trying to "cut the corner"
inside of the light you're a damn fool. If you were about to "turn back" you're
a damn fool. So tell us, jaxie, what kind of fool are you?


btw, that paper sextant you said you carried and used in the fog to tell where
you were, didn't the moisture in the fog cause the paper to fall apart?


Its stayed tucked away for 25 years now, I've only used it a few times.

of course, I have seen one. In fact many, starting about 40 years ago.

who the hell -- besides jeffies -- would claim that RDF make one totally free
from crashing into granite ledges in Maine in a fog, day after day after day?

All because RDF "can tell you where you are within 2*".

weigh to go, jeffies.


jeffie, no RDF on any sailboat gave "accuracy" to withing 5*, let alone 2*.
Your statement just shows you have no idea how RDF works.

jaxie, you've never seen one, let alone used one.


wondering if you've passed Portland or Monhegan the RDF
is very handy.

that is "5 degrees" by your estimation above? yeah, un huh.

Don't go to Maine, jaxie, it would be too scary for you.


millions of people sailed before the GPS was invented.

No kidding?

Nope. Millions.


wanna take a guess how many of those who wandered around in a fog with
granite
ledges in the water made port? For your information, approximated 25% of
ALL
commercial shipping vessels made in the last 50 years of sail powered
shipping
sunk before the boats were retired. one in four. That is what fog and
granite
is for, to sink ships. ask around with the old timers and see what they
did
say 40 years ago.

They used RDF for approaches. I think you're have a little problem with
dates,
jaxie. RDF was not used (certainly not commonly) in the "last 50 years of
sail
powered shipping." For instance, the last coffee-carrying sailing ship
docked
in New York in 1914. The first radiobeacons were not set up until the '20's.
The automated lighthouse radiobeacons soon followed. It was because the US
adopted radiobeacons that it had one of the best safety records in the middle
of
the last century.


btw, well into the 1970's and even into the 1980's a cheap tranistor radio
from
Radio Schack was considered an acceptable alternative to the commercially
available RDF units for recreational sailboats. Why a cheap radio from
Radio
Schack? Because the cheap radio had a more directional antenna than the
better
quality radios. I believe Hal Roth used a Radio Schack radio into the
1970's
and carried it as back up even later.

Good for him. What's your point? You seem to be agreeing that it is useful.
But you're wrong that the pocket radios were preferable, that's just a myth.
There were certainly people saying "I can do just as well with my pocket
radio"
but have used both, I can tell you it isn't true.


Getting "within 20 seconds of turning back" is
NOT something that happens to an experienced mariner in this situation.

really? you mean that career merchant marine was inexperienced?

The fact that he took you as a crew is proof enough for anyone here that he
was
a desperate loser!

I kinda think
of him as a bit more seaman than some clown plowing through the granite
ledges
of Maine listening to rock music radio stations (and a couple of dit dah
dah
dit dah stations) to determine where he was.

Then why was he lost with 3 GPS's and a Loran on board? It sure seems like I
had a better idea of where I was.

You keep trying to prove to us that you're a great mariner because you were
near
someone else that you think was great. But your stories just show that you
had
no idea what was going on. You were scared ****less thinking you were about
to
hit "rocks" that don't exist.

If you were within "20 seconds of turning back" it means you thought you were
within a few hundred yards of disaster. But the charts are pretty clear: as
long as you had 20 fathoms of water you weren't within 10 miles of a hazard.
Even at 10 fathoms, you'd stay miles from the shoals. You weren't "threading
the needle" in some DownEast tickle, you were rounding Diamond Shoals Light -
15
miles offshore, 8 miles from the shoals, with an 18 mile light. You had 3
GPS's, a Loran, and I assume a depth sounder. If you had the least doubt as
to
where you were, you're a damn fool! If you were trying to "cut the corner"
inside of the light you're a damn fool. If you were about to "turn back"
you're
a damn fool. So tell us, jaxie, what kind of fool are you?


btw, that paper sextant you said you carried and used in the fog to tell
where
you were, didn't the moisture in the fog cause the paper to fall apart?


Its stayed tucked away for 25 years now, I've only used it a few times.

"JAXAshby" wrote:

All because RDF "can tell you where you are within 2*".


I see you're quoting Bowditch now. I didn't think you knew what that was.

no, you are not.

RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that accuracy.

have you ever seen one, jeffies? Do you know how they operate? Do you know
why the operate?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
no, you are not.
Actually Bowditch and other government references say "two degree" accuracy.


RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that accuracy.

As I said, I didn't expect better the 5 degrees.


have you ever seen one, jeffies?

As I said, I carried one board. I also regularly cruised on boats that had
them.

Do you know how they operate?

yes. You start by turning them on.

Do you know why the operate?

Physics, jaxie.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y4C5213A7

jeffies, I didn't ask you for a google site. I asked you to explan how RDF
works. It is simple, simple enough so I knew how it is done when I was still
in jr hs. I want to hear _your_ explanation, jeffies, and if you understood
it, you could explane it in less than 10 seconds.

but then if you understood it you wouldn't be such a fool as to say you could
get even 5* accuracy on a recreational sailboat.

btw jeffies, wanna explain how time of year effects RDF accuracy? How about
rain? Sunspots?

Go ahead. trying googling those facts (and they are facts in relation to RDF).

no, you are not.
Actually Bowditch and other government references say "two degree" accuracy.


RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that
accuracy.

As I said, I didn't expect better the 5 degrees.


have you ever seen one, jeffies?

As I said, I carried one board. I also regularly cruised on boats that had
them.

Do you know how they operate?

yes. You start by turning them on.

Do you know why the operate?

Physics, jaxie.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y4C5213A7

JAXAshby wrote:
no, you are not.

RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that accuracy.

have you ever seen one, jeffies? Do you know how they operate? Do you know
why the operate?


And, you know this, how?


otn

over the nee, have you ever seen one? do you know how they operate?

if yes to either of those questions, why do you ask the question below?

RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that
accuracy.

have you ever seen one, jeffies? Do you know how they operate? Do you
know
why the operate?


And, you know this, how?


otn

JAXAshby wrote:
over the nee, have you ever seen one? do you know how they operate?

if yes to either of those questions, why do you ask the question below?

I've used them on ships, and I had one on my 26' Contessa, which I was
able to use to get some relatively accurate fixes (at least accurate
enough for my needs).
Have YOU ever seen one or used one? So far, it's obvious you don't know
how to make use of one.
I ask the question, because I know your only knowledge of navigation,
comes from what you read, not from what you've done.

otn


RDF equipment used on recreational sailboats was not capable of that

accuracy.

have you ever seen one, jeffies? Do you know how they operate? Do you

know

why the operate?



And, you know this, how?


otn

"Jeff Morris" wrote ...

If you had the least doubt as to
where you were, you're a damn fool! If you were trying to "cut the
corner"
inside of the light you're a damn fool. If you were about to "turn back"
you're
a damn fool. So tell us, jaxie, what kind of fool are you?

a damn fool?

SV