No, the regen isn't necessarily needed if you start with a topped of battery. A
system like this gives one a lot of options. Regeneration will not provide for
all needs, except in limited cases. However, it is nice if it can supply a
substantial part of the use.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
so, the regen doesn't really work unless you plug the batteries in at the
dock?

okay.

but, if that is the case why buy the regen equipment?


Jaxie, you're having your typical comprehension problem. The 32 hp-hours
generated should be enough for an hour or two of powering - plenty to power
the
cat out and back into the inlet. Since the batteries give 2 to 4 hours of
backup, it isn't really necessary to regenerate if you're day sailing out of
a
slip.

If you want to do long distance powering or motorsailing, you need to run a
genset. However, a genset run at optimum rpm for recharging will be a lot
cheaper to run than twin diesels.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see. 22 amps at 144 (sic) volts when sailing 18 knots, for about 4
hp
stored per hour times 8 hours gives about 32 hp hours.

yup, that works. you sailed 144 miles and now you're going to motor back
using
1 hp and you are going to do it in just 32 hours (actually about 20 hours
after
taking out ineffiencies).

Being a little sloppy with the units is not that bad - his real blunder is
claiming 72 Watts output. The Condor catamaran claims 22 Amps at 144
Volts,
or
over 3 kW output when regenerating in a good breeze. They generate enough
sailing during the day to power in and out of their inlet.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:
oh, you mean horsepower can not be compared to watts?

Gee, the European engine manufacturers do it all the time. somebody
should
tell them you can't do that.

No, I mean this:

"6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which = 2.3 hp-hours."

Amps times Volts times hours = Watt-hrs, a unit of energy
Horspower times hours= hp-hrs, a unit of energy
Watts are units of power
Horsepower is a unit of power (who would of thought it?)

Energy and power are two different things, which you well know.

Cheers
Marty

Regeneration will not provide for
all needs, except in limited cases. However, it is nice if it can supply a
substantial part of the use.


even at the cost of 5 hp pushing backwards on the boat as you sail?

it seems to me to be a damned expensive way to move a boat. why not buy a
little Honda generator and drag a 55-gallon drum behind the boat. same net
effect, and cheaper, too.

If you don't want to regen, just run the genset - Its still more efficient than
a diesel engine . However, in the tradewinds many boats can generate a lot of
power without compromising speed.

This is obviously not the solution for everyone, however it is becoming viable
for some.

I can see this is all too complicated for you.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Regeneration will not provide for
all needs, except in limited cases. However, it is nice if it can supply a
substantial part of the use.


even at the cost of 5 hp pushing backwards on the boat as you sail?

it seems to me to be a damned expensive way to move a boat. why not buy a
little Honda generator and drag a 55-gallon drum behind the boat. same net
effect, and cheaper, too.

However, in the tradewinds many boats can generate a lot of
power without compromising speed.

this is not generally the statement made by those who have towed water powered
gens behind their boats. In fact, most such sailor report it costs them about
a half knot or more boat speed to generate even 70 watts, let alone 3,000
watts.

People claim lots of things. Are you claiming one of those towed generators is more efficient than
a large prop driving a modern motor generator? And why do you think they did it, was it just to
slow the boat down, or did they think it was the best way to generate some extra power? Are you
claiming you'd rather run a genset a few hours a day to keep the freezer going?

-jeff




"JAXAshby" wrote in message ...
However, in the tradewinds many boats can generate a lot of
power without compromising speed.

this is not generally the statement made by those who have towed water powered
gens behind their boats. In fact, most such sailor report it costs them about
a half knot or more boat speed to generate even 70 watts, let alone 3,000
watts.

no, I was saying that people who use 70 watt towed generators report speed
losses of about 1/2 knot, and therefore some consideration that a 3,000 watt
towed generator would have AT LEAST that much drag, and maybe -- just maybe,
you understand -- rather a bit more.

remember your alleged physics class, jeffie? remember TANSTAAFL?



People claim lots of things. Are you claiming one of those towed generators
is more efficient than
a large prop driving a modern motor generator? And why do you think they did
it, was it just to
slow the boat down, or did they think it was the best way to generate some
extra power? Are you
claiming you'd rather run a genset a few hours a day to keep the freezer
going?

-jeff




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
However, in the tradewinds many boats can generate a lot of
power without compromising speed.

this is not generally the statement made by those who have towed water
powered
gens behind their boats. In fact, most such sailor report it costs them
about
a half knot or more boat speed to generate even 70 watts, let alone 3,000
watts.

Sounds like a reasonable set up. Most daysailors motor 15 minutes to leave
slip, then sail a few hours, and motor 10 minutes to return to slip. Should
work well for that. And a gen-set as a back up.

Scotty

SV


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
No, the regen isn't necessarily needed if you start with a topped of
battery. A
system like this gives one a lot of options. Regeneration will not
provide for
all needs, except in limited cases. However, it is nice if it can supply
a
substantial part of the use.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
so, the regen doesn't really work unless you plug the batteries in at
the
dock?

okay.

but, if that is the case why buy the regen equipment?


Jaxie, you're having your typical comprehension problem. The 32
hp-hours
generated should be enough for an hour or two of powering - plenty to
power
the
cat out and back into the inlet. Since the batteries give 2 to 4 hours
of
backup, it isn't really necessary to regenerate if you're day sailing
out of
a
slip.

If you want to do long distance powering or motorsailing, you need to
run a
genset. However, a genset run at optimum rpm for recharging will be a
lot
cheaper to run than twin diesels.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see. 22 amps at 144 (sic) volts when sailing 18 knots, for
about 4
hp
stored per hour times 8 hours gives about 32 hp hours.

yup, that works. you sailed 144 miles and now you're going to motor
back
using
1 hp and you are going to do it in just 32 hours (actually about 20
hours
after
taking out ineffiencies).

Being a little sloppy with the units is not that bad - his real
blunder is
claiming 72 Watts output. The Condor catamaran claims 22 Amps at
144
Volts,
or
over 3 kW output when regenerating in a good breeze. They generate
enough
sailing during the day to power in and out of their inlet.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:
oh, you mean horsepower can not be compared to watts?

Gee, the European engine manufacturers do it all the time.
somebody
should
tell them you can't do that.

No, I mean this:

"6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which = 2.3
hp-hours."

Amps times Volts times hours = Watt-hrs, a unit of energy
Horspower times hours= hp-hrs, a unit of energy
Watts are units of power
Horsepower is a unit of power (who would of thought it?)

Energy and power are two different things, which you well know.

Cheers
Marty

The sailing school Bart worked at in Norwalk has a fleet of daysailors
(Ensigns?) that are fitting with small electric motors. They don't bother to
regen because they only need 10 minutes to get out and back into the marina.



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Sounds like a reasonable set up. Most daysailors motor 15 minutes to leave
slip, then sail a few hours, and motor 10 minutes to return to slip. Should
work well for that. And a gen-set as a back up.

Scotty

SV


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
No, the regen isn't necessarily needed if you start with a topped of
battery. A
system like this gives one a lot of options. Regeneration will not
provide for
all needs, except in limited cases. However, it is nice if it can supply
a
substantial part of the use.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
so, the regen doesn't really work unless you plug the batteries in at
the
dock?

okay.

but, if that is the case why buy the regen equipment?


Jaxie, you're having your typical comprehension problem. The 32
hp-hours
generated should be enough for an hour or two of powering - plenty to
power
the
cat out and back into the inlet. Since the batteries give 2 to 4 hours
of
backup, it isn't really necessary to regenerate if you're day sailing
out of
a
slip.

If you want to do long distance powering or motorsailing, you need to
run a
genset. However, a genset run at optimum rpm for recharging will be a
lot
cheaper to run than twin diesels.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see. 22 amps at 144 (sic) volts when sailing 18 knots, for
about 4
hp
stored per hour times 8 hours gives about 32 hp hours.

yup, that works. you sailed 144 miles and now you're going to motor
back
using
1 hp and you are going to do it in just 32 hours (actually about 20
hours
after
taking out ineffiencies).

Being a little sloppy with the units is not that bad - his real
blunder is
claiming 72 Watts output. The Condor catamaran claims 22 Amps at
144
Volts,
or
over 3 kW output when regenerating in a good breeze. They generate
enough
sailing during the day to power in and out of their inlet.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:
oh, you mean horsepower can not be compared to watts?

Gee, the European engine manufacturers do it all the time.
somebody
should
tell them you can't do that.

No, I mean this:

"6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which = 2.3
hp-hours."

Amps times Volts times hours = Watt-hrs, a unit of energy
Horspower times hours= hp-hrs, a unit of energy
Watts are units of power
Horsepower is a unit of power (who would of thought it?)

Energy and power are two different things, which you well know.

Cheers
Marty

I almost forgot, I used to sail my 16'er on a 'no engine' reservoir and used
a trolling motor.

SV

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
The sailing school Bart worked at in Norwalk has a fleet of daysailors
(Ensigns?) that are fitting with small electric motors. They don't bother
to
regen because they only need 10 minutes to get out and back into the
marina.



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Sounds like a reasonable set up. Most daysailors motor 15 minutes to
leave
slip, then sail a few hours, and motor 10 minutes to return to slip.
Should
work well for that. And a gen-set as a back up.

Scotty

SV


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
No, the regen isn't necessarily needed if you start with a topped of
battery. A
system like this gives one a lot of options. Regeneration will not
provide for
all needs, except in limited cases. However, it is nice if it can
supply
a
substantial part of the use.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
so, the regen doesn't really work unless you plug the batteries in
at
the
dock?

okay.

but, if that is the case why buy the regen equipment?


Jaxie, you're having your typical comprehension problem. The 32
hp-hours
generated should be enough for an hour or two of powering - plenty
to
power
the
cat out and back into the inlet. Since the batteries give 2 to 4
hours
of
backup, it isn't really necessary to regenerate if you're day
sailing
out of
a
slip.

If you want to do long distance powering or motorsailing, you need
to
run a
genset. However, a genset run at optimum rpm for recharging will
be a
lot
cheaper to run than twin diesels.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
let's see. 22 amps at 144 (sic) volts when sailing 18 knots, for
about 4
hp
stored per hour times 8 hours gives about 32 hp hours.

yup, that works. you sailed 144 miles and now you're going to
motor
back
using
1 hp and you are going to do it in just 32 hours (actually about
20
hours
after
taking out ineffiencies).

Being a little sloppy with the units is not that bad - his real
blunder is
claiming 72 Watts output. The Condor catamaran claims 22 Amps
at
144
Volts,
or
over 3 kW output when regenerating in a good breeze. They
generate
enough
sailing during the day to power in and out of their inlet.


"Martin Baxter" wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:
oh, you mean horsepower can not be compared to watts?

Gee, the European engine manufacturers do it all the time.
somebody
should
tell them you can't do that.

No, I mean this:

"6 amps at 12 volts for 24 hours = 1,728 watts, which = 2.3
hp-hours."

Amps times Volts times hours = Watt-hrs, a unit of energy
Horspower times hours= hp-hrs, a unit of energy
Watts are units of power
Horsepower is a unit of power (who would of thought it?)

Energy and power are two different things, which you well
know.

Cheers
Marty

and used
a trolling motor.


FInally, a reason for the constant trolling.


RB