I'm considering the new MacGregor 26M for use in the Galveston-Houston
area and would like to get comments from anyone who has seen or sailed
on the boat. Or, anyone else.

For sailing and motoring in this area, the MacGregor seems to have some
advantages. - I'm aware of the largely negative comments on this ng
regarding the MacGregor line. However, for the intended use, e.g.,
sailing and motoring with small kids (grandchildren), fishing, and doing
some limited coastal cruising, the Mac 26M has the advantage that it
will motor to a desired destination at around 24 mph and can therefore
get to a desired sail or fishing area, and return, much more quickly
than a fixed keel boat. This tends to minimize the "are we home yet"
issue with small kids and non-sail-type guests. Also, in view of the
hundreds of square miles of shallow bay waters in our area, the boat's
ability to anchor in 15 inches of water, or to beach at one of the
islands, would be an obvious advantage. (The 40-foot Valiant, although
a great boat under sail offshore, was limited to around 8-10 knots under
motor or sail. So, it took us five hours to get from the Kemah marina to
the gulf, and we had to be careful to keep a sharp watch on the depth
finder.)

OK, the comparison is admittedly somewhat ludicrous. For the uses
anticipated, however, the Mac may be a practical and fun choice. Also,
the new "M" model seems to include some substantive improvements. - It
now has both lead and the removable water ballast, has a fin keel (which
I'm assuming may help in pointing), and a structural keel housing
extending vertically from the deck to the ballast area. The boat
reportedly includes additional fiberglass layers and other structural
and ergonomic improvements derived from their experience over the years.
As to it's sailing abilities, there is a video on the Mac web site
comparing the 26M and the 26X under sail, and the new model is clearly
much faster. (Assuming they didn't stage the race or doctor the video.)
With a large genoa, it looks like it might be a fast sailing boat; it
can reportedly plane under sail.

A further consideration is that, if I bought the MacGregor, I would
still have the opportunity to charter a wide variety of heavier boats
kept under charter in our area. Conversely, I couldn't purchase a
conventional fixed-keel boat and also charter a boat similar to the Mac.
(I'm not into motor boats, or staying out in the Texas sun for hours on
a powered fishing boat.) A negative factor is that the new Mac is
fairly expensive when fully equiped, comparable in price to many used 30
- 32-foot boats.

Comments from anyone regarding the sailing and motoring characteristics
of the new 26M would be appreciated.

Jim

Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

SAIL LOCO wrote:

Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.

Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:


Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or "M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power, unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers, cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at 65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble, you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult, because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

Kinda goes along with something I read/heard a long time ago. "Never buy a
boat that you wouldn't want to be seen arriving on"
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"No shirt, no skirt, full service"

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:


Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best
choice
for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of
fishing you
can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the
Mac and
you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who
can't make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.
First of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom
open in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving
large amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

I'm worried about what others will think? So I continue to defend the
MacGregor boats and respond to the cynics on ASA who have never sailed
the boat, but nevertheless, know all about it?

Interesting. For my information, just what would someone who DIDN'T
care what others think post on the ASA ng?

Jim



Scott Vernon wrote:

That's the first I've seen the 'M' model. Looks like they took a big step
backwards re the cabin, which looks exactly like the old (pre 'X') 26'. The
hull still has that ugly step in it, and the gross power-boat type
'windows'.
I've seen a few Xs sailing and talked to a few owners who really love them.
They're not bad boats for their purpose (shallow draft/power/sailboat) if
you can get past the look. Not for ocean sailing, though.
If you really want to talk to owners, Sailnet has a Mac mailing list, and
one just for X owners.

It sounds like you're worried what others will think. In that case, stay
away from the Mac.

S.Vernon

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:


SAIL LOCO wrote:



Sounds like a 25 foot power boat with a small cabin might be the best

choice

for your intended use. After the kids grow up and you get tired of

fishing you

can sell the power boat without loosing your ass like you would on the

Mac and

you can buy a real sailboat. This was not a flame.


Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or

"M" if that's

what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who

can't make up

their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing.

First of all,

the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,

unless you

either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom

open in 1

season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,

cooler, mast,

etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot

faster than

most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real

motorboat,

and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a

marina

closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving

large amounts

of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at

65mph)... with

the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,

you

probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,

because I

have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Thanks for the suggestions. As noted previously, most of my sailing
experience over the past 25 years has been on larger boats, in the 30-35
ft range, that we chartered for family vacations. We would live aboard
the boats for a week, sailing (sometimes in in some pretty high winds),
swimming, cooking meals and sleeping at anchor. I've had training from
several sailing "schools," including an Annapolis Sailing School nav and
heavy boat handling course. So, although I'm sure there are many more
experienced sailors on this ng, I'm well-aware that such heavier boats
are "better" than the MacGregor in a number of ways, particularly for
blue water sailing. The 40 foot Valiant, for example, had three
mainsail reefing lines led to the cockpit, color coded, such that you
could adjust the main to any desired reefing point without leaving the
cockpit, along with roller furling on the jib, plus a staysail.- It was
stable and fast and great for sailing in blue water, making some 9 knots
with the staysail and jib up. Also, of course, owning a larger,
traditional boat would certainly get me more respect from fellow
sailors, whereas sailing a Mac 26 will make me the subject of continued
ridicule and disdain (I should expect continued comments like: He
doesn't know enough about sailboats to realize what a mistake he
made...").

But for our area and conditions and the anticipated uses of the boat,
I'm not sure that these heavier boats would be the best choice or
provide the greatest enjoyment and satisfaction, which I suppose is the
ultimate criteria. (Remember that I can still charter a variety of
larger boats when desired.) In the Kehmah-Seabrook (Houston) area, we
have some huge marinas with thousands of beautiful sailboats of all
types and sizes. But most of these boats sit in their slips in the
marinas for 99.9 percent of the time. - I have had friends tell me
that, after the initial purchase, they had such difficulty in getting
time to go out and in getting crews to go with them, that the boat sat
there, with ongoing maintenance costs, bottom treatments, marina fees,
insurance, etc., so that they finally sold the boat. In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

Regarding the new Mac model 26M, several pretty substantial changes have
been made as compared with the 26X model. They include a new hull
design entailing a deeper, heavier, 15 degree bottom, rounded corners at
the sides, a partial lead ballast rather than full water ballast, a
flatter hull, adjustable dagger board rather than pivotable fin keel,
rotatable mast, additional fiberglass and roving, etc. WHETHER OR NOT
these changes are going to be effective in improving the handling and
performance of the boat, they are significant, substantive changes, so I
don't think it is logical or reasonable to describe the handling and
performance of the new M model based on observations or (usually)
hearsay relating to the older models. The interior of the boat is open,
with lots of windows, and gives the impression that you are on a much
larger boat. (The Valiant 40 that we sailed in the gulf had a
traditional interior that was segregated into several cabins, and the
main salon was therefore not exceptionally roomy or bright and
"cheery.") (By the way, the Mac 26 can be powered with a much larger
motor if you want high speeds and water-skiing capability. - I don't
need or want to go over around 18-20mph, which is still three times
faster than most fixed keel boats.) On the other hand, I don't know how
the new boat sails or handles under power, which is why I posted my
questions. Their video of the M and S models saling side-by-side shows
the M model sailing by the older model as if it were standing still.
Again, I don't know if the "race" was rigged, etc. - You might want to
take a look at the video, that can be downloaded from the MacGregor
site.

Meanwhile, I'll also be looking at some of the larger used boats for
sale in our area. Apparently, I can get an older 30-32 Cal, Catalina,
C&C, etc., for about the same price as a fully equipped Mac 26.
Conditions and needed repairs and maintenance are another question, of
course.

Jim

"Jim Cate" wrote in message
...


In my particular
situation, my former crew (my kids) is not available, and my wife
doesn't seem to be too keen on getting out in anything but ideal
weather. Maybe I could get some of my friends to go, but probably not on
the schedule or frequency I would prefer, and I'm not sure I want to go
out on a large boat by myself, even with roller furling, etc. As
mentioned, we have grandkids who I think would not enjoy the relatively
extended motoring and cruising time entailed in getting a heavy boat to
good sailing areas as is necessary in our area and then back to the
dock. For family outings, the Mac has the advantage that you can anchor
it in shallow water, or beach it on an island, etc. (I'll investigate
other marina choices, however.)

I changed from power to sail because I had young crew.

I found that high speed motoring only gave pleasure to the driver. The
initial thrill wears off very quickly for the rest of the crew.

With a sailing vessel, you can assign tasks to younger crew. They will be
able to excel at these tasks, and earn praise, which helps them to enjoy the
activity, and IMHO, is very good for them.

You may find that you can do this on a MAC 26M, but I suspect that you would
use the power to travel a bit further afield.

Also, are there usually waves in the area that you plan to use the boat?
I don't think that it would be very comfortable doing even 15 kts, in such a
light boat, unless the water was almost flat calm.


Regards


Donal
--

Not to trumpet the successful redesign of Mac's, but the M is nothing like
the X. I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Sure it is... just one with a healthy dose of reality. The Mac26X (or
"M" if that's
what they are calling it now) PowR-SailR is a choice for people who can't
make up
their minds and don't know much about either motorboats or sailing. First
of all,
the advertising is very misleading. They will not go 24 mph under power,
unless you
either put a bigger motor than it's rated for (and crack the transom open
in 1
season) or strip the boat of all extraneous weight like passengers,
cooler, mast,
etc etc. You're more likely to see 15 ~ 18 mph... which is still a lot
faster than
most sailboats can go in most conditions. But much slower than a real
motorboat,
and the PowR-SailR sails poorly at best... not enjoyable sport IMHO.

If the issue is distance to cover, then either get a boat to keep at a
marina
closer to good sailing grounds and drive 65mph to there, thus saving large
amounts
of time... or get a trailerable boat that can be trailered (again at
65mph)... with
the benefit that you can take it other places as well.

If you're not sure if you like sailing enough to go to all that trouble,
you
probably won't. Get a motorboat (and this isn't intended as an insult,
because I
have a motorboat myself... along with three sailboats).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

From: "Jonathan Ganz"
Date: 3/1/2004 12:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I have a friend who has one. I was not really all that embarrassed to
climb aboard. :-)

says something, doesn't it.