Which Herreshoff?

Nav wrote:
Nat.

Well, that's one question answered. Are you going to answer the second (
I know you'd prefer to ignore the third)?

Read and learn
http://www.employees.org/~b299/herreshoff.html

One of the designers or one of the designs?

I'd assume you mean one of Nat Herreshoff's designs, since his renown
was not as a skipper.

http://www.herreshoff.org/
Unfortunately not too many photos available here, but the one on the
cover page is Reliance (1903) heeling what appears to be about 20
degrees (Oz will be pleased to note that her rail is just clear of the
water).

.....OK here's what you posted: "Most boats like about 12 degrees
of heel."

And so, you take that one remark out of context and based on that alone,
post 100 attacks on me?

When are you going to post the results of your emails which were going
to *prove* that I'm a liar?

DSK

http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmphotojboat6big.htm

This is the America's Cup winner of 1930, an N.G. Herreshoff design and the
last AmCup racer with a centerboard. The wind looks fairly light (although
remember that this boat is 120+' LOA, which distorts the scale) and the boat
is heeling 12 ~ 15 degrees... but look at the wake. Obviously the boat is
moving well. But is it "powered up"?

BTW the rest of the series os pretty nice too.

I suspect that Navvie (and a lot of others) consistently overestimate heel
angle. When you're on the boat, the constant motion makes it seem like the
boat is heeling a lot more than it really is. I've had people tell me we
were heeling 45 degrees when in fact it was only 20 on the fun-meter. When
looking at pics, the angle of the leach always exaggerates the heel too.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Nice photo's. I looked at all of them
starting here.

http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmphotoframe.htm


DSK wrote

http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmphotojboat6big.htm

This is the America's Cup winner of 1930, an N.G. Herreshoff design and the
last AmCup racer with a centerboard. The wind looks fairly light (although
remember that this boat is 120+' LOA, which distorts the scale) and the boat
is heeling 12 ~ 15 degrees... but look at the wake. Obviously the boat is
moving well. But is it "powered up"?

BTW the rest of the series os pretty nice too.

I suspect that Navvie (and a lot of others) consistently overestimate heel
angle. When you're on the boat, the constant motion makes it seem like the
boat is heeling a lot more than it really is. I've had people tell me we
were heeling 45 degrees when in fact it was only 20 on the fun-meter. When
looking at pics, the angle of the leach always exaggerates the heel too.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmphotojboat6big.htm

This is the America's Cup winner of 1930, an N.G. Herreshoff design and the
last AmCup racer with a centerboard. The wind looks fairly light (although
remember that this boat is 120+' LOA, which distorts the scale) and the boat
is heeling 12 ~ 15 degrees... but look at the wake. Obviously the boat is
moving well. But is it "powered up"?

No it isn't. She's not near her hull speed (look at the stern) and the
wind is light. I'll be she'd be closer to hull speed when heeld to 25-30.

Cheers

http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmphotojboat6big.htm
.... But is it "powered up"?


Nav wrote:
No it isn't. She's not near her hull speed (look at the stern) and the
wind is light. I'll be she'd be closer to hull speed when heeld to 25-30.

And I bet she's going appreciably faster, and a much higher percentage
of her hull speed, than you think.

As for light wind, this is a boat of approx 130' LOA. What looks like
ripples on the water around her is a substantial chop.

Secondly, when I look at the stern and just aft of the stern, I see a
substantial wave train. With a 90 foot waterline, she could be moving at
10+ knots making such waves.

BTW this boat is one of those type specifically designed to increase the
waterline when heeled. But not as extreme a type as this one

http://boatdesign.net/gallery/showph...cat/all/page/1

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../cat/501/page/

BTW this second pic has the grand daddy heavyweight champ of all stern
waves... boat is heeled a good bit... about time to take in that topsail
I'd think

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:



http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../cat/501/page/


BTW this second pic has the grand daddy heavyweight champ of all stern
waves... boat is heeled a good bit... about time to take in that topsail
I'd think


What would you estimate the angle of heel to be?

Cheers

Now this _is_ too much

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../cat/501/page/

Cheers

DSK wrote:

http://www.herreshoff.org/frames/mmphotojboat6big.htm
.... But is it "powered up"?



Nav wrote:
No it isn't. She's not near her hull speed (look at the stern) and the
wind is light. I'll be she'd be closer to hull speed when heeld to 25-30.


And I bet she's going appreciably faster, and a much higher percentage
of her hull speed, than you think.

As for light wind, this is a boat of approx 130' LOA. What looks like
ripples on the water around her is a substantial chop.

Secondly, when I look at the stern and just aft of the stern, I see a
substantial wave train. With a 90 foot waterline, she could be moving at
10+ knots making such waves.

BTW this boat is one of those type specifically designed to increase the
waterline when heeled. But not as extreme a type as this one

Now this _is_ too much

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../cat/501/page/

Cheers

Nav wrote:
Now this _is_ too much

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../cat/501/page/

How about this

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...php/photo/334/

What do you estimate the heel angle of these two to be? Hint- is is
pretty close to the range you were claiming is "powered up" earlier.

BTW you never did clarify what you meant by 'powered up' with regard to
VMG or speed relative to true wind velocity or what.

DSK

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

Now this _is_ too much

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../cat/501/page/



How about this

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...php/photo/334/

What do you estimate the heel angle of these two to be? Hint- is is
pretty close to the range you were claiming is "powered up" earlier.


You really think that boat (?668) is beating to windward? Is 45 close to
30 when discussing trim and heeling?


Cheers