DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

... I said powered up!


If you think 30 degrees heel is "powered up" then there's really no
point in discussing it.


Lord what a self serving, devious and misleading (for others) response.

Fact: At least two syndicates revealed CFD calculations for ~30 degrees
heel and boatspeed about ~10 knots. That's pretty powered up I'd say. I
can also tell you typical trim tab angles for those conditions but I'm
sure you wouldn't want to know about either. If you come here even you
can sail on IACC yachts (for a modest price) and find out what an IACC
yacht powered up feels like. It's a blast I promise.

If you don't belive me try a google search -the papers are out there.

Cheers

Nav wrote:
Lord what a self serving, devious and misleading (for others) response.

More insults. Thanks.


Fact: At least two syndicates revealed CFD calculations for ~30 degrees
heel and boatspeed about ~10 knots. That's pretty powered up I'd say. I
can also tell you typical trim tab angles for those conditions but I'm
sure you wouldn't want to know about either.

Actually I am interested in any info (from the real world, I mean, not
JAXworld) that anybody can provide. It's a big part of why I am here.

The fact that you constantly allude to how much you know, yet never
actually explain anything or post actual info and refuse to provide
links, is very revealing.

Anyway, if the IACC syndicate designers calculated data for 30 degress,
does that mean they intend the boats to actually sail at that angle, or
that this is the fastest angle of heel?


.... If you come here even you
can sail on IACC yachts (for a modest price) and find out what an IACC
yacht powered up feels like. It's a blast I promise.

What makes you think I haven't already sailed an IACC boat, without
having to pay? In any event, I would not want to sail one that kept
breaking.


If you don't belive me try a google search -the papers are out there.

Why not post the links?

BTW did you ever email any of the people you said you were going to?

DSK

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

Lord what a self serving, devious and misleading (for others) response.


More insults. Thanks.


Fact: At least two syndicates revealed CFD calculations for ~30
degrees heel and boatspeed about ~10 knots. That's pretty powered up
I'd say. I can also tell you typical trim tab angles for those
conditions but I'm sure you wouldn't want to know about either.


Actually I am interested in any info (from the real world, I mean, not
JAXworld) that anybody can provide. It's a big part of why I am here.


Young America was designed for 6 degrees trim at 10 knots boatspeed and
30 degrees heel. That's about as fast they expected to go when powered
up here.

Cheers

Nav wrote:
Young America was designed for 6 degrees trim at 10 knots boatspeed and
30 degrees heel. That's about as fast they expected to go when powered
up here.

6 degrees trim on what... the keel trim tab? That sounds like a heck of
a lot.

Bear in mind that at 30 degrees heel, the projected sail area and keel
foil area are only 85% of actual area. Hard to claim that this is when
the boats are most efficient.

Anyway, long narrow boats like the IACC class and the old 12s too tend
to sail at higher angles of heel than more normally proportioned boats.
I still think 30 degrees is a bit of an overstatement.

DSK

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

Young America was designed for 6 degrees trim at 10 knots boatspeed
and 30 degrees heel. That's about as fast they expected to go when
powered up here.


6 degrees trim on what... the keel trim tab? That sounds like a heck of
a lot.

Bear in mind that at 30 degrees heel, the projected sail area and keel
foil area are only 85% of actual area. Hard to claim that this is when
the boats are most efficient.


Who said anything about efficient. Powered up refers to power!

Anyway, long narrow boats like the IACC class and the old 12s too tend
to sail at higher angles of heel than more normally proportioned boats.
I still think 30 degrees is a bit of an overstatement.

Wot only a 'bit' now is it? Just yesterday you rubbished it! Doug, lots
of boats are only fully powered up at 30 (or more) degrees heel. Of
course as a dingly sailor you wouldn't know that but it's really true.

Let me paint a typical picture for you: At that 30 degrees heel the boat
is alive and really punching through waves to windward. Windspeeed is
probably about 18-20 knots with gusts to 25. The rail is getting wet
with occasional waves over the bow and it's the limit where more wind
means you'll probably have to ease the main sheet (or reduce sails) to
maintain good control and boat speed. It's a fun place to sail -powered up!

Ask any of the others -they've sailed there I'm sure!

Cheers

Anyway, long narrow boats like the IACC class and the old 12s too tend
to sail at higher angles of heel than more normally proportioned
boats. I still think 30 degrees is a bit of an overstatement.



Nav wrote:
Wot only a 'bit' now is it? Just yesterday you rubbished it! Doug, lots
of boats are only fully powered up at 30 (or more) degrees heel.

OK, I am still not sure what you mean by "powered up." It sounds to me
like you are relishing the feeling of heeling too much. It's fun, but
it's really not fast.

.... Of
course as a dingly sailor you wouldn't know that but it's really true.

Spoken like one whose experience in racing class dinghies is limited to
embarassing capsizes within 100 yards of the club dock.


Let me paint a typical picture for you: At that 30 degrees heel the boat
is alive and really punching through waves to windward.

At 30 degrees heel, the boat is heeling too much. It is "punching"
through waves because the hull presenting a set of awkward angles. Other
boats have depowered a little and are going faster.

... Windspeeed is
probably about 18-20 knots with gusts to 25. The rail is getting wet
with occasional waves over the bow and it's the limit where more wind
means you'll probably have to ease the main sheet (or reduce sails) to
maintain good control and boat speed. It's a fun place to sail -powered up!

Ask any of the others -they've sailed there I'm sure!

Sailing rail-down and driving hard is a lot of fun. But it's not the way
boats sail their best.

Personally I like spinnaker reaches with threatening wipe-outs on every
wave. But it's a rare indulgence because it isn't really the right way
to do things. In fact, in one of our 'powered up' Johnson 18 photos it
was said that it looked like we didn't know what we were doing.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Anyway, long narrow boats like the IACC class and the old 12s too
tend to sail at higher angles of heel than more normally proportioned
boats. I still think 30 degrees is a bit of an overstatement.




Nav wrote:
Wot only a 'bit' now is it? Just yesterday you rubbished it! Doug,
lots of boats are only fully powered up at 30 (or more) degrees heel.


OK, I am still not sure what you mean by "powered up." It sounds to me
like you are relishing the feeling of heeling too much. It's fun, but
it's really not fast.

.... Of course as a dingly sailor you wouldn't know that but it's
really true.


Spoken like one whose experience in racing class dinghies is limited to
embarassing capsizes within 100 yards of the club dock.


Let me paint a typical picture for you: At that 30 degrees heel the
boat is alive and really punching through waves to windward.


At 30 degrees heel, the boat is heeling too much. It is "punching"
through waves because the hull presenting a set of awkward angles. Other
boats have depowered a little and are going faster.

Have you done any big boat sailing or been in a race in windy
conditions? Why not read the book whose URL I posted and then come back
on it. Better yet go back to the classic literature and look at the
tests of the Gimcrack. She was fastest at 30 degrees and was no faster
at 35 degrees. That's still a correct rule of thumb for most fast
cruiser racers today.

Perhaps Donal would like to post the figs. for his boat -if he's got them?

Another slam dunk.

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Anyway, long narrow boats like the IACC class and the old 12s too
tend to sail at higher angles of heel than more normally proportioned
boats. I still think 30 degrees is a bit of an overstatement.




Nav wrote:
Wot only a 'bit' now is it? Just yesterday you rubbished it! Doug,
lots of boats are only fully powered up at 30 (or more) degrees heel.


OK, I am still not sure what you mean by "powered up." It sounds to me
like you are relishing the feeling of heeling too much. It's fun, but
it's really not fast.

Wrong again. Look at the references.

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

Lord what a self serving, devious and misleading (for others) response.


More insults. Thanks.


I'd say it's quite mild given the tone of your response. Others might
have referred to your interest in animals but I'm too polite to stoop to
such gutteral behaviour.

Cheers