A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Donal wrote:


Bushmills Green Label, if you can find it!

Not difficult to find over here, maybe they export it all.

Lately I have been enjoying John Powers Gold which is nicer, although
hard to find (over here).

DSK

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Donal" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:


"katysails" wrote in message


Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

Bushmills?


Bushmills Green Label, if you can find it!

Figured they make a premium product, but I've never seen it here. What's
the diff? Age? I have found some older Jameson's, though.

Max

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Donal" wrote in message ...
"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Martin Baxter wrote in message
...
Joe wrote:

"One of the tests involves sitting at the chart table, with the ports
blacked
out, and predicting your position to within a few metres.

In other words, you have to sail (and navigate) the boat "blind".

No external imput at all.

How can this be done?

Joe
MSV RedCloud

Joe you seem to be rather thick, you must take this post in the context
of the
others that preceded it.

Yeh right show me this content.

If you do so you will be aware that there is in fact
"external" input;

Thats not what his post said thicker thick thickest, he said no imup
exterinal imput.

The examiner is going to tell you your starting position,

Yes external imput # 1

Poor, Joe! Poor, poor Joe.

As you are in a Yachtmaster exam, you will already know your position.
With the pilot house windows blacked out the only way your going to
know your position is someone tells you. Understand? Thats external
imput, comprende?


You certainly do not need to be told your position at the start of the blind
test, as at that point you were not navigating blindly.

Oh OK, that makes sence. When I learned to navigate we needed to know
were we were, that was some of the basic stuff.




compass
heading

External imput #2

Poor, Joe! Poor, poor Joe.

I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for you.

You do not ask the crew for the compass reading. As the navigator you
*tell* the crew what the compass heading should be.

But you have to look at the compass to tell what your course is,
therefore the compass is giving you imput, can you understand this
farout concept?

It quite simple, isn't it? ... .... well, OK, you'll just have to take my
word. It *is* simple. Honestly.

Simple imput a CC






and any course changes,

External imput #3

If I am navigator, then I direct the course changes.

Not if you move blind into a strong current, the current might set
your course and drift, without external imput from your compass you
will not be able to accurately tell your deviation from orignal
heading, if you are blind that is.



...... go on Joe, you really want to mention "meeting" or "crossing"
situations, don't you?

Yeah and being blind without external imput meeting situation are
going to be very risky huh?





most likely you will also get the boat speed through
the water.

well thats more external imput isnt it?


EXTERNAL imput #4
You have to plot your course accounting for set,

A competent navigator will have used his tide tables before he sets out on
his trip. In fact, I mentioned this a couple of years ago. I always insist
that my wife and my sons do independent passage plans before a long passage
so that they will really *know* where we are if something happens to me.



Tide tables?

Yes! Navigators use them when their GPS sets break down.


They do! Wow your smart.



EXTERNAL #5

leeway (you are going to
have to know your boats characteristics

for this based on angle of heel, something you
can sense in the cabin and therefore another input),

Ill say that internal and OK with what the yachtmaster wannabe claims.
After all you can sence that in a pilot house with the windows blacked
as stated.

drift...., you will have a watch and tide
tables.

Yelp EXTERNAL IMPUT #5


To accomplish this with some accuracy is not that difficult, I'm not
sure
why you seem to be so astounded by such an ability.


Damn..... With 5 external imputs that as easy as tieing your shoe. I
thought these yachtmasters knew something special and astonishing.

I other works Lanod was talking out his arse and did not have a clue
what he was saying. Is that what you are saying ?

Joe, by this stage you should be beginning to realise that I can make more
sense while talking out of my arse than you can by utilising all the
intellectual abilities that you have at your disposal. [good insult, huh?]

About as good as your description of blind navigation with no imput at
all, you know the "Waves slapping on the hull" line you spewed. Your
yachtmaster exam sounds like what a basic OS or AB would sit for.
Basic Basic Basic. Your the only one that thinks it is , difficult,
mysterious, and a great feat of navigation.

If you lived in the early 1800's you be yelling at the skipper STOP
STOP before we fall off the edge of the world.

Joe
MSV RedCloud





Regards


Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Donal" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:


"katysails" wrote in message


Donal's Irish...he does hold the secret of life....

Bushmills?

No, but very close. The Gaelic for whiskey is "Uisce Beatha" [pron:- ish
ke bah ha] which literally translates as "The water of life".



Bushmills Green Label, if you can find it!

Figured they make a premium product, but I've never seen it here. What's
the diff? Age? I have found some older Jameson's, though.

Their labelling scheme is a bit odd. The "Gold" label is the standard
product, next comes "Black", and finally Green.

It's a few years since I had a bottle, but IIRC it was 10yo single malt.
Very smooth.


Doug might be correct, it is possible that most of it gets exported.
Another whiskey that seems to be only available abroad is Tullamore Dew. I
get it in France where it is quite cheap.


Regards


Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Figured they make a premium product, but I've never seen it here. What's
the diff? Age? I have found some older Jameson's, though.

Donal wrote:
Their labelling scheme is a bit odd. The "Gold" label is the standard
product, next comes "Black", and finally Green.

Their regular stuff is pretty good IMHO (in moderation of course).



It's a few years since I had a bottle, but IIRC it was 10yo single malt.
Very smooth.

Doug might be correct, it is possible that most of it gets exported.
Another whiskey that seems to be only available abroad is Tullamore Dew. I
get it in France where it is quite cheap.

Figures. What do the French know about whiskey? They probably use it for cooking
snails.

DSK

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Comments interspersed: See John E's response

Donal wrote:


The question was "How can this be done?".

I've tried to answer the question, but Joe doesn't want to believe me.
I've also tried to give "real life" examples.

As far as I remember, you have no inputs at all. You issue orders from
down below, and you predict your position from tide tables. etc.

I believe the "tide tables. etc." was the info joe was looking for. As I
said, I was getting a "glimmer" of this from your responses, but wasn't
absolutely sure.


I'm only talking about standard stuff, currents, leeway, etc.

It is probably designed to show your real passage planning abilities, and
your likely performance in fog.

..... and as you say, "passage planning" is an area that many people do
not make enough use of, and an area that can save a good deal of grief
if properly employed.


I, for one, would be interested in the specifics of this test, but from
your description, don't have a clue as to what's involved, though I'm
beginning to pick up some glimmers, that it's a basic piloting exam.


I've described the test several times.
You are sent below, where the ports(windows) have been blacked out.
You have your starting position clearly marked on the chart.. After 1/2
hour you are asked to mark your current position on the chart.

While you are below, you may issue instructions. eg course to steer.
I don't remember if you are told the speed.

The examiner will check the accuracy of your plot, and decide if you merit
a pass. The examiner decides what accuracy he requires.

Again, see John E's response.

It's 13-14 years since I did the course, so I'm cannot give you the
specifics of what is required.

understood


13 years ago, there was far less electronics on boats. There wasn't even
GPS.

I think it's been a bit longer than that....course, the time element of
change from "sat nav" to "gps" is kinda blurry ... sat nav being in the
early 80's

Hmmm, who's trolling? Joe claims that doing 25 knots in fog under radar
alone is safe. He refuses to believe that you can use tide tables and a
chart to plan a course that you can actually use without much further
assistance. Now you expect me to remember all the precise details of
something that I studied 13 years ago!

G I think you misread/understood what Joe was saying (at least, I read
his statement differently) No one runs the type of boat he was talking
about, in fog, at those speeds, under radar "alone".
The route is well known, local knowledge is extensive, tides and
currents are well known and specific, as are traffic patterns,
densities, etc., and a lookout is normal (lookout may not be on the bow
as this could be dangerous, but there will be one, though I recognize
"idiots" exist in all quarters).
Now, as to your memory ..... of course I expect you to remember those
details .... just don't expect me to remember the details of my "radar
recertification" I did @6 mos ago.

otn


Regards


Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
So, are you claiming you don't receive actual speed, or wind readings? Or
depth? Compass headings? Buoys passed? Sounds heard?

John E has obviously been through it recently, and I think that he gave a
good answer. I believe him when he says he was given some details about the
buoys passed.

As I pointed out earlier, it is 13 years since I did this stuff.



If you don't get any of this, why bother doing it on board; you could do
the
same thing in a class room.

John has also said that you will be given the compass heading if the crew
cannot maintain the course that you request.



You made one of your typical outrageous claims, and then have refused to
clarify.

Jeff, what outrageous claim do you think that I made?

I clarified to the best of my ability.

How is this not trolling?

Jeff, every post that asks for a response, is in some way a troll.

Was MC trolling when he pointed out the part of Rule 2 that you had
studiously avoided for the last couple of weeks? Or were you trolling when
you stated that a kayak "had no business" to be in a TSS. Were you
trolling when you suggested [and later retracted] that ships could keep a
lookout by radar alone?

Let's face facts Jeff. I've done something to upset you, haven't I? Was
it the position that I took in last year's "pecking order in fog"
discussion? That was a real Neal classic! I freely admit that I played
devil's advocate in that thread. As well as being quite hilarious, the
thread proved very informative, even if you never actually managed to prove
your point.

Just for the record, I *never* troll.


Regards

Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...
Comments interspersed: See John E's response

I've seen it, and it looks like he has done the test recently.


Donal wrote:


The question was "How can this be done?".

I've tried to answer the question, but Joe doesn't want to believe me.
I've also tried to give "real life" examples.

As far as I remember, you have no inputs at all. You issue orders from
down below, and you predict your position from tide tables. etc.

I believe the "tide tables. etc." was the info joe was looking for. As I
said, I was getting a "glimmer" of this from your responses, but wasn't
absolutely sure.


I thought that I mentioned these fairly early in the conversation.




I'm only talking about standard stuff, currents, leeway, etc.

It is probably designed to show your real passage planning abilities,
and
your likely performance in fog.

.... and as you say, "passage planning" is an area that many people do
not make enough use of, and an area that can save a good deal of grief
if properly employed.

Before taking the family on cross-channel trips, I always make sure that my
wife and eldest son do a passage plan. That way, if anything happens to me
they should be able to carry on.

I've also taught my kids that using the GPS means a longer crossing, even
when you allow for the *predicted* tide. The tides are rarely exactly as
predicted. This doesn't matter much on a 12-14 hour crossing, because if
the tide goes faster one way, then it will also go faster the other way. So
we usually stick to our course. Big errors usually correct themselves when
the tide turns.





I, for one, would be interested in the specifics of this test, but from
your description, don't have a clue as to what's involved, though I'm
beginning to pick up some glimmers, that it's a basic piloting exam.


I've described the test several times.
You are sent below, where the ports(windows) have been blacked out.
You have your starting position clearly marked on the chart.. After 1/2
hour you are asked to mark your current position on the chart.

While you are below, you may issue instructions. eg course to steer.
I don't remember if you are told the speed.

The examiner will check the accuracy of your plot, and decide if you
merit
a pass. The examiner decides what accuracy he requires.

Again, see John E's response.

It's 13-14 years since I did the course, so I'm cannot give you the
specifics of what is required.

understood


13 years ago, there was far less electronics on boats. There wasn't
even
GPS.

I think it's been a bit longer than that....course, the time element of
change from "sat nav" to "gps" is kinda blurry ... sat nav being in the
early 80's

The only nav systems that I saw on boats was Decca. Maybe GPS sets were too
expensive???



Hmmm, who's trolling? Joe claims that doing 25 knots in fog under
radar
alone is safe. He refuses to believe that you can use tide tables and a
chart to plan a course that you can actually use without much further
assistance. Now you expect me to remember all the precise details of
something that I studied 13 years ago!

G I think you misread/understood what Joe was saying (at least, I read
his statement differently) No one runs the type of boat he was talking
about, in fog, at those speeds, under radar "alone".

Did you read the thread? He seemed pretty clear on the subject, and
defended his position quite vigourously.


The route is well known, local knowledge is extensive, tides and
currents are well known and specific, as are traffic patterns,
densities, etc., and a lookout is normal (lookout may not be on the bow
as this could be dangerous, but there will be one, though I recognize
"idiots" exist in all quarters).

Joe was adamant that he used radar, and didn't need any other form of
lookout.

Now, as to your memory ..... of course I expect you to remember those
details .... just don't expect me to remember the details of my "radar
recertification" I did @6 mos ago.


I've come to the conclusion that you remember the things that are of
practical use. For example, I have forgotton almost all of the morse code.

I've also forgotton what most identification lights mean. If they have
anything unusual, then I give way.


Regards


Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Hi Jeff,

"without the use of any electronic device" is the way I (and many of my
classic owning friends) still sail today as my little cruiser (195x
Hillyard) only has an electronic echo sounder (no power feed from the 195x
Stuart 2 stroke and only a 22watt solar panel for a trickle charge on the
lighting circuit), pitching the lead when single handed and closing on a lee
shore in fog is a real bummer (I have got a lead & line in the locker
though) ;-))

The whole tilt on the YachtMaster Offshore and Ocean is the practical aspect
and the ability to deliver on the water, not just in the confines of the
classroom. The YM does have a theory component but to get you ticket you
have to perform on the day on the water (as well as having the minimum time
aboard day and night and the miles logged), in my case the middle of
November, English winter, -17 chill factor and a 30Kt wind blowing. Fun?
Not!

JohnE

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the description - that makes a lot of sense. By comparison,
the test
in the US for 6-pack or 100 ton Master's includes similar chartwork, but
performed in the classroom, without a serious time limit. (And, of
course, it
assumes powerboats.) For someone experienced, its much easier than being
on
board, but it can be more difficult for some people, because the chart
used may
be completely unfamiliar and dis-orienting. (Not that its supposed to be
easy
...)

The way you say "without the use of any electronic device" makes it sound
like
its a test of ancient and arcane arts. In reality, its the way most of us
sailed up until about 10 year ago.

-jeff

"John.E" wrote in message
...
This was applied in my exam... (sailing not motoring)

I got about two minutes to fix my position from a 3point/running fix and
I
was sent then below decks (with curtains closed and no outside view)...
Once below I was then supplied with my target...
(a bouy about 6-7 Nm away along the Solent, a very busy stretch of
water
full of commercial and pleasure traffic)
I was allowed the following info...
crew were permitted to supply shape of any bouy passed within
5-10mtrs... (not colour or markings)
crew could supply compass heading if course requested heading could
not
be achieved... (under sail, no motors)
crew could supply speed through water from log reading... (no VMG or
other compute details)
crew could supply current depth from echo sounder... (I assume the a
leadline is concidered to be aboard)
charts of given exam area and tidal atlas...
The examiner would also feed me various sound signals just to spcie
things
up!

There you have it, the only info available was information that could be
gleaned without the use of any electronic device and no engines used.

JohnE

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Donal wrote in message ...

( lanods backpeddeling sniped for space)

You are sent below, where the ports(windows) have been blacked out.

Do you have a compass below?


You have your starting position clearly marked on the chart.. After 1/2
hour you are asked to mark your current position on the chart.

While you are below, you may issue instructions. eg course to steer.
I don't remember if you are told the speed.

figure the distance of the seperation of each wave. Count the number
of waves that slapped your hull and divide to get distance, take your
distance and divide by time and you should have speed. Simple, you
should have to be told your speed if your a true Yachtmaster.


The examiner will check the accuracy of your plot, and decide if you merit
a pass. The examiner decides what accuracy he requires.

It's 13-14 years since I did the course, so I'm cannot give you the
specifics of what is required.

13 years ago, there was far less electronics on boats. There wasn't even
GPS.

No kidding! Did you have loran? How about a sextant?





Simply stated, give Ole Joe some basic info to work with and maybe he'll
stop asking questions ..... or is this a troll ?


Hmmm, who's trolling? Joe claims that doing 25 knots in fog under radar
alone is safe.

Stop twisting the facts Lanod. It is safe if you know the area, know
the radar picture, and your radars ability, know how to use a radio,
and know how to pass safely.

Its not a troll when you have done it a thousand times , It's a fact.


He refuses to believe that you can use tide tables and a
chart to plan a course that you can actually use without much further
assistance.

LIAR, I can do that with ease. However I can not be put in a
wheelhouse
with the windows blackened out and navigate with no external imput
like you claimed the yachtmaster test required.

And you ought to do something about that sweating problem.


Now you expect me to remember all the precise details of
something that I studied 13 years ago!


You better go back for a refresher course lanod.



Regards


Donal
--

Joe
MSV RedCloud