A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:50:21 +1100, Peter Wiley
scribbled thusly:

Nobody I know has a yachting cert of any type so who cares, really? In
Australia it's pretty much for people who want to go racing. Everyone
else just goes sailing.

PDW

Nah, actually it's not.
It's for people who like a bit of paper to show to their friends.


On occasion, why not?
It has some other uses too, insurance, charter, work...
Handy if you get caught short too ;-))


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

JohnE

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Donal" wrote in message
...

all the usual selective memory stuff selectivly snipped

Donal
--


Jeeeeezes Donal, get a grip fella!

I have done all I am going to to clear your name over this issue. I have
fessed up to making false assumptions, so let it go.Think back to my
original post, 'Do really have a YM? - 14/01/2004 @ 20:55' was the question
to which I offered to eat 'humble pie', yet again I point to the fact you
eventually answered 'no', how many times do we have to do this.
You have an unhealthy preoccupation with the possibility of me lying and
there by defaming you, to lie I needed the facts that were not forthcoming!
If this will help you move on at all try looking at.
http://www.hyperdic.net/dic/l/liar.shtml. 'false witness', do you remember
you used the phrase 'As far as I remember, you have no inputs at all'. I
urge you to think before replying with yet another wounded tyrade, by your
own standards I should be stamping my foot waiting for an apology from you
over your dismissal of my sail training timings which you dismissed as lies,
also your assumption that I had an Ocean ticket (which I never claimed)
which led to you branding me a liar. Your own conduct has been no worse or
better than mine, as I said before, a game of brinkmanship, in this case it
has ended in stalemate.
This is getting so tedious, let it go, move on, we can do this tit-for-tat
rubbish till the end of time and it will not change my summing up in my
previous post.

JohnE

By the way, you can't let me have a couple of CT-4600A's cheap could you?

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Do you have a point to all this drivel? Are you under some delusion that I
"lied" about your YM, or lack thereof? Do you think I actually care?

You're one sick puppy, Donal.



"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
"Donal" wrote in message
...

You're assuming I have any idea what the meaning of "shorebased exam"
is.

You implied you took a course where the test involved navigating while
on
board - is that what you call shore based? When pressed on the
details of
the
"blind navigation" test you said: "It's 13-14 years since I did the
course, so
I'm cannot give you the specifics of what is required." That
certainly
sounds
like you actually took this test. However, your very confused answers
seemed to
show that you never could have passed it.



In fact, a few weeks ago I wrote the following

" I've only done the shorebased element.".

Here is a link to it on Google.




http://groups.google.com/groups?q=do...roup:alt.sa i


ling.asa&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.sailing.asa&c2coff=1&scoring=d&selm= 6Y
GdnVbURbX8A3SiRVn-sw%40comcast.com&rnum=2


What's the point? Does anyone care? First you claim to have done
it,
now
you're saying you haven't. Truth is very pliable for you, isn't it?


You will notice that Jeff read that post, and replied to it.

So? What are you claiming? That you took the course but flunked the
test?



Do a search for "donal yachtmaster shorebased" in Google groups. 15
hits.
Now use Google to find any claim that I possess the Yachtmaster
Practical.


What is that? Is that the shore based part?

Are you *pretending* to be stupid?


No. Why do you assume I have any knowlege of your system? I've said
several
times that I don't, and whenever I've asked about it you haven't
responded.

I still don't know if the "blind navigation" test is part of the "shore
based"
part. It seems not, because you claimed it takes place on a boat
underway. But
you siad you only did the shorebase part. I'm not trying to be obstuse,
you're
simply not answering the question.







Here is another link from Google



http://groups.google.com/groups?q=do....sailing.as a


&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.sailing.asa&c2coff=1&scoring=d&selm=bg c3e6%245
8f%241%248302bc10%40news.demon.co.uk&rnum=4


Quote :- "I've said before that I am a novice sailor. "
In fact, I've said that many times. Do a Google. It's all there.


As near as I can tell its possible to get a YachtMaster while still a
novice.
What's your point?

Yes, It is possible to get a Yachtmaster while still a novice. That
*is* my
point.


So are you claiming you have a yachtmaster? You're going in circles here.

Yachtmaster is nothing special. Are you fooled by the title?







Your first post to me contained these words:-
"Go on, be brave, face me down on this one. I will eat humble pie if
needed
but IMO you are a faker!"

Nope. You're still a faker. You implied you had done the "blind
navigation
test,"

I did *not*. I said that I had done blind navigation. I have! Not
only
have I done blind navigation, but I have also given you a good
description
of what it is like.

No, you gave a rather poor description. When pressed you refused to
clarify,
claiming you couldn't remember. It was John that gave a description that
made
sense.

I've practised it, as I described it. You should try it.






You seem to be missing the fact that I was heavily involved in the
setting
up of a sailing club that was formed by a group of people who did the
"shorebased" course together. We got on so well that we set up a club
when
the course ended. Afterwards, we carried on with the "instructional"
theme.
We had weekends afloaat where we practised "man overboard" routines. We
practised sailing without using the rudder. We also practised "blind
sailing".

Excuse me for not knowing your life story. If you can't remember it, how
can
you expect me to?

So are you saying that the "blind navigation" text is one that is really
part of
a license that you don't actually have? Did you take the test for real or
for
practice? Don't you see why this could be confusing?

Only to someone who wanted to think that I was bul****ting.







For some very odd reason, you refuse to believe me. That is your
problem,
not mine.

I don't believe or not believe. We've asked you to clarify but you seem
to take
this as a game.

Yes, it is. Wake up, Jeff.

You've been here for a number of years. Have you been ignoring me? I
have always presented myself as a newbie to the sport of sailing.




now you seem to be saying you didn't. Whether you have or haven't
really does make any difference. You could clarify this is you
wanted,
but you
seem to prefer looking like a faker.

You are really taking the **** here.

On the 24th of December, you answered one of my posts. In that post I
explicitely stated that I did *NOT" have the practical Yachtmaster.

OK, I give up. Just what is the "practical" yachtmaster? Is yours an
"impractical" yachtmaster?



No, as I explained before, there is a "theory", or "shorebased" course.
There is also a "practical" or boat based element to the "Yachtmaster". I
explained this to you on the 24th December, and you replied - so you *did*
read it. Furthermore, you recentely made a post which suggested that you
understood the difference between the two. Do I need to do a "Google" to
find ir for you?




Regards


Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

Donal wrote:


Sounds about right, $34 Can for Tullamore (1.34l), $46 can for the Bush,
(1.34l)


Our bottles are only 0.7l. [sigh]


As in everything else in this country, we try to be bilingual, so we
have 0.71, (old 26 oz), 1l, 1.34l (old 40 oz) and the "Texas Mickey",
3.78l (one US gal, 128 UK fl oz I think?)

Cheers
Marty

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Donal" wrote in message news:bu9tfb$ese$1$

The CollRegs *do* advocate a constant visual lookout. Joe thinks it is a
waste of time.

Your the spin doctor again Donal.

Visual can be with radar. Infact you can view much more in think fog
using radar. I never ever said a lookout was a waste of time.

Please tell me why you think a radar is not an effective tool?
Is it because you can not even tune your wal-mart special?
Is it because you have no faith in your ability and the tools you
have?
Or is it just because your to inexperienced?
Or perhaps it's a combo of all the above.
Why do you lie all the time?

On-shore yachtmaster....... Thats as impressive as a on the ground
pilot.
Or how about a tight rope walker suspended 2 inches above the ground.

Lanod you have made it crystal clear you have no clue about anything
nautical,
we will just leave it at that. OK

Joe
MSV RedCloud





Jeff isn't sure what he thinks. I wonder what JohnE thinks?



Regards

Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

otnmbrd wrote in message thlink.net...
Joe wrote:

I'm not a proponent of total immersion in the radar hood, though at
times it's necessary. I have always preferred to pull back, at times and
rest my eyes and attention .... sometimes, you might be able to see more
than you expect .... it's a total awareness thingy.


Thats OK at night or offshore, but not a good ideal in the day or
river....
It's a night vision issue. Fof blindness is somewhat like snow
blindness

Understand what you are referring to, but we'll have to agree to
disagree on this.
In many if not most cases, now, the "daylight" screens tend to solve
this problem.

Agreed, But when I was running crewboats we had Furuno 110's, you know
had the old solid brass wave guides.

The greater problem applies to normal visual lookouts who
are staring/concentrating while scanning the horizon, as well as those
staring/concentrating on the radar screen ..... they tend to develop a
narrowed response to the overall picture, which causes them to miss some
things and I have frequently been surprised that when I look away, then
look back, that I pick up something that I was missing before ..


Its a proven fact that your perifeial(SP)side vision is best at
picking up and spotting new items.

... G
not the easiest thing to explain.





If you can not see your bow, whats he going to see or prevent at
20kts?

G One never knows for certain. Again, I'm not necessarily advocating a
constant visual lookout, but more of a split visual, radar, hearing, for
the designated lookout, in your case..... each case can and will vary.

In my case it was on crewboats in fog so thick you could not see the
bow. Mostly in the rivers of LA. A split vision system would not help
due to blowing your night vision, Heck I'd close my eyes to drink
coffee then heads down back in the hood before I'd open them. Most
runs if heavy fog was on the delta,
Once offshore it opens up a bit, and I agree in switching back from
visual to radar, hopefully you can pull your radar hood off.




Plotting.... not often unless coming up on a seabouy with inbound
traffic or offshore. On the crewboats we did little plotting, but
supply and tow boats we plotted most targets, always when we were the
lead tow on a jack-up or semi.

On a tow, you are apt to have more time ... on the crewboat, you might
have to rely on the EBL and VRM unless you have ARPA capabilities.


Crews boat off shore just run around any potential problems like
nets, siemic cables, fishing gear ect. , and we beat anyone we want to
the crossroads, unless it another crew boat.

Your right on tows you have all day, Its a great place to learn to
plot by radar, and you learn how to wear out the radio keeping
everyone out of your way. Something to pass the time as well. 3-5
knots weeks on end get old.





Rivers and canals are the best place to do this. With flat water you
can tune a radar to see the wake off a canoe. The outline of the banks
can be as familiar as seeing it in the day. Tanks on the banks,
Hunting shacks, channel markers, islands, bouys, docks, tree clumps,
logs and even seagrass clumps can be tuned in to a crystal clear
picture if you know what your looking at, and know how to use the
tool.

Would he argue so strongly if I said the wheelhouse was equiped with
FLIR?

BG I'm waiting for them to come up with a lightweight, portable,
inexpensive unit, that I can carry with me.


Raytheon has a real cool unit you see on cop cars all the time now 7
grand.
not to portable, but awesome preformance. I know one crewboat the
Comet out of Freeport has one. We use to call the owner Capt. Gaget.
Totally tricked out boat.

Fraid that all the units I've seen to date are too cumbersome and/or
expensive for this "poor mans" application.

otn


Yeah but so were computers in the 80's. Way back when. The price
will come down, so will plasma tv, ect..

Joe
MSV RedCloud

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"John.E" wrote in message ...
"otnmbrd" wrote in message
link.net...


The CollRegs *do* advocate a constant visual lookout. Joe thinks it is a
waste of time. Jeff isn't sure what he thinks. I wonder what JohnE
thinks?

....EG As are we. We are just splitting that lookout between visual
out the window or just plain outside, and radar. Not all boats/ ships
can work effectively/realistically/ safely under a "purest" guidelines
for the rules.


otn


The thought of being near ANY vessel thrashing around at 20Knts + in fog
scares me to death! Coastal or offshore, but the truth of the matter is that
this happens all the time and not many crashes occur

Would you be scared doing it with this boat?

http://www.tmt-llc.com/crewboats/TM667C.htm

This is the typical crewboat. This one is nicer than most-- it has
inside stern controls for offloading at the oil platform.

Joe









(aside from the goon
who hit our local beach on the plane a couple of years ago) so a lot of folk
must be able to use radar effectivly, or just lucky. I have never noticed
ships slowing in the English channel or elsewhere just 'cause of a little
grey stuff.

As I have VERY limited experience using radar I am not the best to judge of
its use but my preference is composite. Time on the screen and time in the
open. Eyes given a chance to adjust and refocus as well as the mind. I also
like silent periods, sound from other sources, though echoing I find can and
does help with locating vessels and marks. This is based on sailing and
motorsailing on small (under 80ft vessels, most under 40ft). May be flawed
but it's my penny worth.

JohnE

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...

The thought of being near ANY vessel thrashing around at 20Knts + in fog
scares me to death! Coastal or offshore, but the truth of the matter is
that
this happens all the time and not many crashes occur

Would you be scared doing it with this boat?


Probably, but that is my imagination getting in the way again ;-) Just as
trollling around on a small yacht in fog and meeting it would worry me,
looking at the draft I could not even hide shallow water from it :-(
This not a reflection on the crew, just my own feelings. I think it is
probably totally impractical in a working environment when time is fuel is
money but I would rather everyone trolled around at speed to suit conditions
that would let them avoid collisions visually. One of my old teachers used
to warn us of 'radar assisted collisions', I suppose I carry this concept to
this day, probably reinforced by own lack of experience using radar and my
lack of exposure to the use of radar at the hands of a really experienced
operator.

http://www.tmt-llc.com/crewboats/TM667C.htm

This is the typical crewboat. This one is nicer than most-- it has
inside stern controls for offloading at the oil platform.

Joe


JohnE

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
"Donal" wrote in message news:bu9tfb$ese$1$

The CollRegs *do* advocate a constant visual lookout. Joe thinks it is a
waste of time.

Your the spin doctor again Donal.

Visual can be with radar. Infact you can view much more in think fog
using radar. I never ever said a lookout was a waste of time.


Joe, I apologise for the confusion that I caused by using the term visual

The CollRegs state :-
"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and
hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing
circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation
and of the risk of collision. "

When the rule uses the word "sight", I believe that they mean that someone
should look with their own eyes.
The "hearing" bit means that someone should use their ears..... and I don't
mean the VHF.
The phrase "all available means" includes your Radar set.


Please tell me why you think a radar is not an effective tool?

Oooh nooo. Not again!! I'm being asked to prove something else that I
didn't claim.

Radar is an extremely effective tool. I use it myself - especially in fog.

Is it because you can not even tune your wal-mart special?

I only need it to detect big ships. I don't have any need for an expensive
set. I'm not charging arount at 25 kts in visibility that is so bad that a
lookout would be pointless. I'm doing about 6 kts.

Is it because you have no faith in your ability and the tools you
have?
Or is it just because your to inexperienced?
Or perhaps it's a combo of all the above.
Why do you lie all the time?

Lie? I don't(usually).

What happens is quite simple. Your comprehension abilities are not the
best. This causes you to jump to the wrong conclusion. I find this funny.
So, I help you along.



On-shore yachtmaster....... Thats as impressive as a on the ground
pilot.

Joe, you made incorrect assumptions about my qualifications. Your
problem.... not mine!

Or how about a tight rope walker suspended 2 inches above the ground.

Lanod you have made it crystal clear you have no clue about anything
nautical,
we will just leave it at that. OK

OK. If you can.


Jeff isn't sure what he thinks.

It is interesting that you think that. For once you might be right.



Regards


Donal
--

A Tachtmaster wanna be said
 

John.E wrote:

Probably, but that is my imagination getting in the way again ;-) Just as
trollling around on a small yacht in fog and meeting it would worry me,
looking at the draft I could not even hide shallow water from it :-(
This not a reflection on the crew, just my own feelings. I think it is
probably totally impractical in a working environment when time is fuel is
money but I would rather everyone trolled around at speed to suit conditions
that would let them avoid collisions visually. One of my old teachers used
to warn us of 'radar assisted collisions', I suppose I carry this concept to
this day, probably reinforced by own lack of experience using radar and my
lack of exposure to the use of radar at the hands of a really experienced
operator.

Most "radar assisted collisions" occur because someone didn't plot the
target. Using the EBL/cursor and range rings or VRM, is not plotting.
Problem is, few recreational boaters have the ability to plot, many
"work boats" don't either ....no excuse for ships.

otn