Oz,

Are you sure about bolting to a stub?
I almost didn't buy my present boat because it had no visable keel
bolts. I assumed they were buryed. Being use the doing all the
maintenance on the leaking keel bolts I wasn't sure of how to take care
of the problem. My Broker laughed at me. He said my keel will never have
bolt leaks because the whole keel is part of the hull. The light finally
went on.

Keels shouldn't be bolted to fibre Glass. It is a method that was
carried over from wooded construction. When a keel bolt works on
fibreglass there is no recovery and it will only get worse until you do
maintenance. Schooner Trash can confirm this. I know it. It is a
fault racers put up with to have the option of changing keels.

OT

You're full of **** as usual, old man!

Bolting keels to a fiberglass hull is the best
way to do it. What you have on your inferior
boat is a hull molded in the shape of a keel
with lead if you're lucky, and concrete if
you aren't placed into the hollow hull-shaped-
like-a-keel.

A bolted-on lead keel is the best choice with
a bolted-on cast iron keel second in line. The
hull must be engineered to manage the forces
involved, however. This is not very hard for
an engineer to design. It's only the racers
that are built as light as possible that seem
to have problems with fin keels breaking off.

S.Simon




"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Oz,

Are you sure about bolting to a stub?
I almost didn't buy my present boat because it had no visable keel
bolts. I assumed they were buryed. Being use the doing all the
maintenance on the leaking keel bolts I wasn't sure of how to take care
of the problem. My Broker laughed at me. He said my keel will never have
bolt leaks because the whole keel is part of the hull. The light finally
went on.

Keels shouldn't be bolted to fibre Glass. It is a method that was
carried over from wooded construction. When a keel bolt works on
fibreglass there is no recovery and it will only get worse until you do
maintenance. Schooner Trash can confirm this. I know it. It is a
fault racers put up with to have the option of changing keels.

OT

Are you sure?
;-P
Cheers MC

Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote:
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 12:14:31 +1300, The_navigator©
scribbled thusly:


My keel stub is 2" thick and forms part of the structural grid. 8 of
the bolts are in double rows as well...

Cheers MC


OK, that'll do :-)


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Dear Thom

If properly designed there is no problem with bolting keels on. Bolting
an external deep keel on has several advantages for construction,
transportation etc. It can also save costs by placing the tensile load
on bolts whose quality and later state of health is more easily
determined than that of the hull skin -which would have to cover the
entire surface of the fin to carry the weight in the keel. Getting the
lead inside the fin might be a problem too.. This is less of an issue
for small boats where ballast weights are more modest. Finally, and
perhaps most important, the solution you prefer would require the fin to
be laid up in halves (being a long thin structure) and the bonding of
those halves would be very wasteful of material and not a good
structural solution as the joint would be a 'weak point'.

Cheers MC

Thom Stewart wrote:

Oz,

Are you sure about bolting to a stub?
I almost didn't buy my present boat because it had no visable keel
bolts. I assumed they were buryed. Being use the doing all the
maintenance on the leaking keel bolts I wasn't sure of how to take care
of the problem. My Broker laughed at me. He said my keel will never have
bolt leaks because the whole keel is part of the hull. The light finally
went on.

Keels shouldn't be bolted to fibre Glass. It is a method that was
carried over from wooded construction. When a keel bolt works on
fibreglass there is no recovery and it will only get worse until you do
maintenance. Schooner Trash can confirm this. I know it. It is a
fault racers put up with to have the option of changing keels.

OT

I agree, although a depleted uranium keel is even better than lead...

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


Bolting keels to a fiberglass hull is the best
way to do it. What you have on your inferior
boat is a hull molded in the shape of a keel
with lead if you're lucky, and concrete if
you aren't placed into the hollow hull-shaped-
like-a-keel.

A bolted-on lead keel is the best choice with
a bolted-on cast iron keel second in line. The
hull must be engineered to manage the forces
involved, however. This is not very hard for
an engineer to design. It's only the racers
that are built as light as possible that seem
to have problems with fin keels breaking off.

S.Simon




"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...

Oz,

Are you sure about bolting to a stub?
I almost didn't buy my present boat because it had no visable keel
bolts. I assumed they were buryed. Being use the doing all the
maintenance on the leaking keel bolts I wasn't sure of how to take care
of the problem. My Broker laughed at me. He said my keel will never have
bolt leaks because the whole keel is part of the hull. The light finally
went on.

Keels shouldn't be bolted to fibre Glass. It is a method that was
carried over from wooded construction. When a keel bolt works on
fibreglass there is no recovery and it will only get worse until you do
maintenance. Schooner Trash can confirm this. I know it. It is a
fault racers put up with to have the option of changing keels.

OT

I assume you're talking about an interior keel, that is lead poured into the
fiberglass hull.

This is not immune from problems. I remember reading an Ocean Navigator article
about a cruiser that went through Woods Hole and made the classic mistake of
hesitating in the turn, and ended on Red Ledge, the rocks just to the east of
the channel.

The CG pulled him off fairly quickly, but the interior keel was bent, and the
boat was declared totaled.



"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Oz,

Are you sure about bolting to a stub?
I almost didn't buy my present boat because it had no visable keel
bolts. I assumed they were buryed. Being use the doing all the
maintenance on the leaking keel bolts I wasn't sure of how to take care
of the problem. My Broker laughed at me. He said my keel will never have
bolt leaks because the whole keel is part of the hull. The light finally
went on.

Keels shouldn't be bolted to fibre Glass. It is a method that was
carried over from wooded construction. When a keel bolt works on
fibreglass there is no recovery and it will only get worse until you do
maintenance. Schooner Trash can confirm this. I know it. It is a
fault racers put up with to have the option of changing keels.

OT

It's heavier but is it soft enough to cushion possible
impacts with the sea bottom? Since it is used to pierce
armor I've got a feeling it is pretty stout stuff.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
I agree, although a depleted uranium keel is even better than lead...

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


Bolting keels to a fiberglass hull is the best
way to do it. What you have on your inferior
boat is a hull molded in the shape of a keel
with lead if you're lucky, and concrete if
you aren't placed into the hollow hull-shaped-
like-a-keel.

A bolted-on lead keel is the best choice with
a bolted-on cast iron keel second in line. The
hull must be engineered to manage the forces
involved, however. This is not very hard for
an engineer to design. It's only the racers
that are built as light as possible that seem
to have problems with fin keels breaking off.

S.Simon




"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...

Oz,

Are you sure about bolting to a stub?
I almost didn't buy my present boat because it had no visable keel
bolts. I assumed they were buryed. Being use the doing all the
maintenance on the leaking keel bolts I wasn't sure of how to take care
of the problem. My Broker laughed at me. He said my keel will never have
bolt leaks because the whole keel is part of the hull. The light finally
went on.

Keels shouldn't be bolted to fibre Glass. It is a method that was
carried over from wooded construction. When a keel bolt works on
fibreglass there is no recovery and it will only get worse until you do
maintenance. Schooner Trash can confirm this. I know it. It is a
fault racers put up with to have the option of changing keels.

OT

Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:43:14 -0500, "Simple Simon"
scribbled thusly:

It's heavier but is it soft enough to cushion possible
impacts with the sea bottom? Since it is used to pierce
armor I've got a feeling it is pretty stout stuff.

S.Simon

Cushion?
WTF are you talking about?


You know, when a sailor runs into a rock or other
hard object on the bottom - maybe a coral head
it is said that lead, being soft, will cushion the
blow by deforming and absorbing some of the
force thus sparing the structure of the yacht.

S.Simon

Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:08:21 -0500, "Simple Simon"
scribbled thusly:


Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:43:14 -0500, "Simple Simon"
scribbled thusly:

It's heavier but is it soft enough to cushion possible
impacts with the sea bottom? Since it is used to pierce
armor I've got a feeling it is pretty stout stuff.

S.Simon

Cushion?
WTF are you talking about?


You know, when a sailor runs into a rock or other
hard object on the bottom - maybe a coral head
it is said that lead, being soft, will cushion the
blow by deforming and absorbing some of the
force thus sparing the structure of the yacht.

S.Simon


Bwaaahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!
Cappy that rates among the most idiotic things that you've ever
written!!


It did not originate with me but I can see the logic of it.

Your reaction, on the other hand, is illogical.

S.Simon

Simple,

You are looking in the wrong direction. The Pile of **** is in Your
Court.

My Keel is a separate Keel that has been attached to a "Newport 30" hull
and Fibre Glassed into the Hull/including the lead wing also incased in
Fibre Glass.

I've had both; Bolted on and Molded on. I can say, from experience after
14 years the molded in has given me zero problems. I can't say that with
either of my Bolt ons