Hey Oz,

Did that former Patner have anything to do with that POS the Kiwi Built
for the America's Cup Defense? smile What an object of Pride to show
the world on World Wide TV of Kiwi boat building :^)

Ole Thom

Hey Oz,

Did that former Patner have anything to do with that POS the Kiwi Built
for the America's Cup Defense? smile What an object of Pride to show
the world on World Wide TV of Kiwi boat building :^)

Ole Thom

Wasn't that a Farr project?

I have to wonder who engineered the hull to
accept this 'add on' keel. It sounds to me like
a disaster waiting to happen. I wonder if the
scantlings are right for a glassed-on false
keel? I doubt it. I can envision stress cracks
galore. Wear your exposure suit at all times.

S.Simon


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...
Simple,

You are looking in the wrong direction. The Pile of **** is in Your
Court.

My Keel is a separate Keel that has been attached to a "Newport 30" hull
and Fibre Glassed into the Hull/including the lead wing also incased in
Fibre Glass.

I've had both; Bolted on and Molded on. I can say, from experience after
14 years the molded in has given me zero problems. I can't say that with
either of my Bolt ons

Simple Simon wrote:

It did not originate with me but I can see the logic of it.

Oh Geez, it is truly amazing what passes for logic in your mind.

Your reaction, on the other hand, is illogical.

It was the reaction of anyone with more than an elementary school
education, a few moments exposure to high school physics, and the world
outside a mental institution.

But then I guess you applied the same logic to your selection of
galvanized pipe to repair your broken boom.

Master mariner, indeed. If you ever left your mooring you would be a
hazard to navigation. As it is you are just a bad joke, a health hazard,
and a marine pollutant.

Rick

I check my keel bolts every 6 mos or so. They're easily accessible on
the Cal 20. Doesn't hurt to check. When I hauled it the first time, several
were loose.

Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 22:59:29 GMT,
scribbled thusly:

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 08:03:41 +1100, "Captain William Collin, Master of
the
barque Grimenza" wrote:

I could never buy a C&C with their "smile" reputation because any
cracking meands movement no matter what the owners/builders may say.
I suspect that is the real reason Bubbles purchased his boat cheap.
The crack means water ingress, the water one devoid of oxygen will
corrode the keelbolts and then the real drama begins. I would be
interested in seeing his current haulout shots to see if he had the
problem fixed.

This is just plain nonsense. The C&C smile is very rarely cause for
alarm.
Cracking does not always mean shifting or a breech. In the case of C&C,
what it
usually means is some of the extreme outer layer of fillet cracking due
to
stretching of the hard, non flexible fillet material.

Umm what's causing the stretching? Movement?

The keel joint itself
remains water tight unless the keel bolts have not been properly torqued.
Every
spring, I spend all of 15 minutes checking the torque on those 5 big
bolts. No
big deal.

I've never needed to check keel bolts more than once after a keel was
installed unless there were unusual circumstances. ie grounding or
extreme weather.
First sign is usually cracking.

My C&C had a crack all the way around the keel when I bought it. The keel
bolts
were not tightened properly. The keel had been professionally rebedded 5
years
earlier, but the keel bolts had not been checked since then. Even at
that,
there was no, none, nada, zilch, leaking into the bilge

Water can still get around the bolts without getting into the bilge.

I simply torqued the
bolts properly, ground out the crack a little bigger and filled it with
Marine
Tex. The crack has not re-appeared. This is a complete NON - ISSUE for
people
knowledgeable about boat construction.

Oh OK, so next time I see a boat with cracks right around the
hull/keel joint I'll just think about you and pass it off as nothing
to worry about, Just torque em up and she'll be right mate.

The famous C&C smile is cosmetic for the most part. I have seen boats of
many
brands with true keel separation. C&C is better than most in this regard
because
of the way the joint is designed.

Cosmetic for the most part....What's the other part?

BB



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:01:36 -0500, "Simple Simon" scribbled thusly:

You know, when a sailor runs into a rock or other
hard object on the bottom - maybe a coral head
it is said that lead, being soft, will cushion the
blow by deforming and absorbing some of the
force thus sparing the structure of the yacht.

Bwaaahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

Sorry but SS is right on this one. A sharp hammer like impact imparts very
high albiet near instantanious loads that break relatively brittle materials
like glass and the glass fibers in composites. The soft lead would absorb
some of the peak load and spread the rest over a longer period of time
reducing the peak stress. That's why race bikes never use steel crash bars.

Enough to make a difference? Yer pays yer money and ....

Hey mister toy tugboat skipper, what makes you
so jealous of me? Is it because you know with
your silly restored tugboat you really can't go
anywhere, do anything, or even manage to fool
yourself into thinking you are enjoying yourself?

The only enjoyment you get out of your silly
vessel is satisfaction you get when you think
people are actually admiring your restoration
efforts when all the while they are thinking,
"waste of time, effort and money on a pipe
dream".

Real men such as those of us who live aboard
and cruise and voyage under sail do not need
the 'cosmetic' approval of a stream of dock
passers-by to build up a sagging ego. We are
secure in the knowledge that we are living
a life centered on enjoying mother nature
and the beauty of sail - not the polyurethane,
chrome, wax, and buffer world of you
showboaters.

S.Simon


"Rick" wrote in message link.net...
Simple Simon wrote:

It did not originate with me but I can see the logic of it.

Oh Geez, it is truly amazing what passes for logic in your mind.

Your reaction, on the other hand, is illogical.

It was the reaction of anyone with more than an elementary school
education, a few moments exposure to high school physics, and the world
outside a mental institution.

But then I guess you applied the same logic to your selection of
galvanized pipe to repair your broken boom.

Master mariner, indeed. If you ever left your mooring you would be a
hazard to navigation. As it is you are just a bad joke, a health hazard,
and a marine pollutant.

Rick

Oz'

Loose from compression?

You're asking the right question. I do believe that is what makes the
bolts on a bolt on keel come loose. I believe that compression on the
fibre glass causes it to take a permanent set (Even if just sitting on
the hard) This set gives the, bolt on, the ability to work (Move)

On my past boats I found this to be true. I installed packing under the
washers before torquing. It gave me a dry hull but was never sure of the
bolts outside the hull and the moisture penetrating the fibre glass on
the drilled holes?

Ole Thom

Ever do any mechanic work? Have you ever used a brass
hammer to say align a crankshaft that is pinned and
pressed together? The brass hammer head deforms
while the crankshaft counterweight does not. Very
small movement of the counterweights can be attained
instead of the large, uncontrolled movement that would
knock the crankshaft out of alignment on the opposite
side of the spectrum.

This control and the fact the brass hammer is used because
it is soft and does not damage the structure of the crankshaft
as a steel hammer would is analogous to the forces applied
on the hull of a boat if its keel hits an unmovable object.

The same principle applies to a lead keel. The
mass of lead, of course, is the primary consideration
but the softness of the lead to cushion a blow is another
consideration and makes lead a superior material to
cast iron in addition the lead's extra mass.

It is hard for me to believe you've been in the yachting
field very long or done much reading to speak of without
knowing this very obvious and widely known fact.

S.Simon


Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:01:36 -0500, "Simple Simon"
scribbled thusly:


Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 17:08:21 -0500, "Simple Simon"
scribbled thusly:


Captain William Collin, Master of the barque Grimenza wrote in message ...
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:43:14 -0500, "Simple Simon"
scribbled thusly:

It's heavier but is it soft enough to cushion possible
impacts with the sea bottom? Since it is used to pierce
armor I've got a feeling it is pretty stout stuff.

S.Simon

Cushion?
WTF are you talking about?


You know, when a sailor runs into a rock or other
hard object on the bottom - maybe a coral head
it is said that lead, being soft, will cushion the
blow by deforming and absorbing some of the
force thus sparing the structure of the yacht.

S.Simon


Bwaaahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!
Cappy that rates among the most idiotic things that you've ever
written!!


It did not originate with me but I can see the logic of it.

Your reaction, on the other hand, is illogical.

S.Simon

Cappy could you fill me in on how much cushioning I could expect from
say a 4 ton lump of solid lead and how it would achieve that
cushioning?


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

So far they haven't been loose, but I'm not losing much by checking
periodically.

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Oz'

Loose from compression?

You're asking the right question. I do believe that is what makes the
bolts on a bolt on keel come loose. I believe that compression on the
fibre glass causes it to take a permanent set (Even if just sitting on
the hard) This set gives the, bolt on, the ability to work (Move)

On my past boats I found this to be true. I installed packing under the
washers before torquing. It gave me a dry hull but was never sure of the
bolts outside the hull and the moisture penetrating the fibre glass on
the drilled holes?

Ole Thom