In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires
great attention to detail and sound knowledge of your vessel. Many
people here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind
you that seaworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major
passages and suitability for storm conditions.

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on his seamanship (it helps
if you already have qualifications like Ocean yachtmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowledge that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not).

[snip]

Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it
anywhere there's enough water to float it.

Once again I count myself lucky to be an Australian instead of a NZ'er.
Ocean yachtmaster or coastal skipper before you can go sailing??? Give
me a break.

All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance
sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go
away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn
to swim or stay home.

There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further
in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed,
which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave
port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all
the poorer for it.

Peter Wiley

Got the wrong end of the stick old chap. I think the Russian you are
talking about was not alone and he did it in a old lifeboat. That he
made it here is amazing 'cos he had no charts -but he was not far from
land until the Tasman. The trouble was that as he had no idea about boat
construction the Al hull had corroded badly due to elctrolysis and
people got tired of his scrounging for repairs. His girlfriend hooked up
pretty quickly with a wealthier man. They were both Bludgers of the
first order -IMO. They were not prevented from leaving but their
liklihood for survival was made clear to them. They were also informed
that if they got into trouble it could be several days before any help
could reach them... If I remember he was deported when his visa ran out
and so got a free ticket back to USSR.

Cheers MC



Peter Wiley wrote:



All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance
sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go
away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn
to swim or stay home.

There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further
in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed,
which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave
port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all
the poorer for it.

Peter Wiley

Must be a different one. The one I'm thinking of came through Darwin
and a guy I know ran across him at Cocos. Bernie was SH'ing a Colvin
Witch heading for Africa at the time, said the Russian built the boat
himself - all 12' of it.

IIRC we threw the Russian out after a week - he had no papers, passport
or the like. Still, anyone who can go from Darwin to Cocos with that
minimal amount of gear is doing well. Wouldn't bet on his survival, but
he's got a long way so far.

PDW

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

Got the wrong end of the stick old chap. I think the Russian you are
talking about was not alone and he did it in a old lifeboat. That he
made it here is amazing 'cos he had no charts -but he was not far from
land until the Tasman. The trouble was that as he had no idea about boat
construction the Al hull had corroded badly due to elctrolysis and
people got tired of his scrounging for repairs. His girlfriend hooked up
pretty quickly with a wealthier man. They were both Bludgers of the
first order -IMO. They were not prevented from leaving but their
liklihood for survival was made clear to them. They were also informed
that if they got into trouble it could be several days before any help
could reach them... If I remember he was deported when his visa ran out
and so got a free ticket back to USSR.

Cheers MC



Peter Wiley wrote:



All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance
sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go
away. Boat unseaworthy and/or incompetent crew? So sad, too bad. Learn
to swim or stay home.

There's a Russian in a 12' sailboat, Navvie, who's gone a lot further
in it than you have managed in your boat, and done it single-handed,
which you can't do in yours. Nobody in NZ would be allowed to leave
port in such a cockleshell as that Russian has done. You lot are all
the poorer for it.

Peter Wiley

"Peter Wiley" wrote in message
. ..
Here in Australia we can build/buy anything we like and sail it
anywhere there's enough water to float it.

Top marks!

If Oz has his way, you won't be able to get out if bed without a bloody
certificate!





Regards


Donal
--

"Peter Wiley" wrote:

All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance
sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go
away.

That sounds like a good idea.

I like the international col regs and some of the other international
maritime law.
I don't mind rules regulating the security of crew and passegers on
comercial wessels, but:
Amateur sailors should be able to sail as they wish and should take the
responsibillity for their own actions. To me this is a bacic human need.
Sailboats are in general not dangerus for other people (unlike cars in the
city), so free us from all the rules and expences that restrict the freedom
to sail and bear the consequences of our own actions.

I don't have figures, but I belive that actualy very little monney is spend
on saving crasy people crossing oceans in small open boats from their own
folly.
I think much more monney is spend saving people with ekspencive boats,
wellequiped with electronic gadgets and safetyfeatures, but who fail to
understand the dangers and risks, because they are lulled into a false sense
of security with all the gadgets and all the rules they comply to.

All the regulations might becomme a sleepingpill that make people unable to
grasp that life is risky, and sailing is risky, and you have to protect
yourself against your own and otherpeoples stupidity and not just "let you
leed to the slaughterbench because you are told to by gowernment or other
people".

Peter S/Y Anicula

In article , Peter S/Y
Anicula wrote:

"Peter Wiley" wrote:

All we really need to do is restrict EPIRB's to people with insurance
sufficient to cover the cost of SAR and the whole problem would go
away.

That sounds like a good idea.

I like the international col regs and some of the other international
maritime law.
I don't mind rules regulating the security of crew and passegers on
comercial wessels, but:
Amateur sailors should be able to sail as they wish and should take the
responsibillity for their own actions. To me this is a bacic human need.
Sailboats are in general not dangerus for other people (unlike cars in the
city), so free us from all the rules and expences that restrict the freedom
to sail and bear the consequences of our own actions.

I don't have figures, but I belive that actualy very little monney is spend
on saving crasy people crossing oceans in small open boats from their own
folly.
I think much more monney is spend saving people with ekspencive boats,
wellequiped with electronic gadgets and safetyfeatures, but who fail to
understand the dangers and risks, because they are lulled into a false sense
of security with all the gadgets and all the rules they comply to.

Unfortunately true. I am reminded of a couple who got themselves
'rescued' from a quite seaworthy vessel because it got knocked down in
a storm. When rescued they had a working engine, an intact rig and the
storm had passed. Bruises but no broken bones or internal injuries.
They got off onto a freighter and the newspaper reported that they had
a hard time getting their yacht to go fast enough to match the
freighter's minimum speed for maintaining steerage.

Complacency followed by panic.

I note that Navvie, having started this thread, has now abandoned it
when nobody thinks his Govt's approach has any merit. Pity because I
was wondering about whether Tilman's boat would have passed NZ's
seaworthiness test. Kinda doubt it..... which would have been really
funny.

Peter Wiley