I'd suggest letting go... otherwise you're in for a ride.

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
news

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 19:00:57 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:
You've no idea how many times I've heard that from owners of yachts
that later come in for rudders. 4" shafts snap like twigs when a yacht
is driven backward by a breaking wave.


That's due to poor design. Any 'barn door' rudder can not
be expected to take the strain on the hinges when it fetches
us hard against the stops.

But, my rudder is free to turn through 360 degrees. How's it gonna
break off when pushed backwards? It will just pivot around on its
axis so the leading edge is leading. Superior design in every way!

S.Simon

Amazing because it won't happen except in his dreams.

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
She'll heave-to with no rudder and forereach? Amazing.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

In force 8 in the open sea I would heave-to under storm trysail. A
rudder
would not be necessary as the trysail would keep her forereaching.

A storm severe enough to break off the rudder would be a survival
storm. Repairs would have to be made AFTER the storm passed.
A rudder is only necessary when going to weather. Heaving-to
or lying-to under storm trysail requires no rudder.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

Out board in idle to steer a boat in F8? Are you joking -I hope so.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


No problem!

As long as the fuel holds out the boat can be steered with
the motor in gear and the throttle just above an idle. That
should allow some time to steer through or wait out adverse
conditions.

The motor can be taken off the transom without too
much trouble and the wood fitted in the safety of
the cockpit but this would best be done in calmer
conditions for safety and to keep from losing the
motor overboard. In the meantime, I have two
windsurfing masts aboard which I could easily
make into a steering oar lashed to the transom

S.Simon


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:14:13 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



The outboard motor can be used for steerage if the rudder
breaks off. I have suitable wood and nuts and bolts to make
a foil to attach to the shaft of the outboard motor which
pivots.

You can bolt taht all in place in a seaway in adverse conditions
without falling over the side?



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Best suggestion yet!

Cheers MC

Rick wrote:

Donals Dilemma wrote:

Umm Cappy, they are fragile tubes about 54mm dia. You could bend one
around your knee, all that is required is a point loading eg pushpit
or an old impact dent.


Maybe he plans to remove the galvanized pipe from the broken boom and
use that.

Rick

I can see you are aware of the limitations of the vessel you own. That
is a good sign. Now take that fool DSK whon thinks a Bolger micro with
open bow(!) and ustayed rig is a better seaboat than a Cornish crabber.
With ideas like that it's not surising he's run away from sailing. He
probably thinks that 50' from shore is offshore!

Cheers MC


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Given that I've only had my boat out the Gate once and given that
it's only 20 feet, I'm not sure I can say that it's seaworthy as far
as offshore goes. In fact, I'm sure it isn't. It is capable of safe
operation in the bay, however. I carry all required safety
equipment, and I have lots of extra good-idea items also. Here,
the CG is only interested in you if you're either boarded on a
spot inspection or get into trouble. There is little, if any consideration
given to prevention. You would not believe some of the vessels
that transit the bay no less leave the bay. People die and boats
capsize and sink quite regularly in the bay itself. Many of the
reasons are alcohol related, but a lot are either due to stupidity or
a crap boat (well, I guess those are the same thing).

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires
great attention to detail and sound knowlege of your vessel. Many people
here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind you
that seworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major
passages and suitabiliuty for storm conditions.

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on hisd seamanship (it
helps if you already have qualifications like Ocean yactmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowlege that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not). In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seworthy then it is just
a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a strom
jib?

Cheers MC

On boats with unseaworthy, poorly (or no) supported rudders, yes. On
boats designed for extended cruising with a protected and well
supported rudder, no. Which category does yours fall into?

PDW

In article ,
The_navigator© wrote:

Rudder failure is depressingly common.
Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

I've got two telescoping jib poles as well. They are long enough
when not expanded and very strong with triple layers of tubing.

If the windsurfer masts carried away the jib poles could be
pressed into service.

What's all this concern with broken rudders? Mine is sound.
It has lasted for thirty years and has a two-inch stainless
steel shaft. It ain't likely to break.

S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

Did you know that spinnaker poles often break when used thusly?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


The outboard has a twenty inch shaft and the cutaway
in the transom is only about a foot above the water.
The motor stays in the water pretty well. Remember
there is a pretty nice stern wave when making way
through he water.

Not the aluminum windsurfer masts. They are pretty crush proof.

S.Simon


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:32:26 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



No problem!

As long as the fuel holds out the boat can be steered with
the motor in gear and the throttle just above an idle. That
should allow some time to steer through or wait out adverse
conditions.

I didn't know that they built outboards with shafts long enough to
stay in the water as the boat pitches thruogh a wild sea....when most
rudders break.

And your OB doesn't look unusually long, must be the camera angle eh
http://www.homestead.com/captneal/Sheshines.html


The motor can be taken off the transom without too
much trouble and the wood fitted in the safety of
the cockpit but this would best be done in calmer
conditions for safety and to keep from losing the
motor overboard. In the meantime, I have two
windsurfing masts aboard which I could easily
make into a steering oar lashed to the transom

So you don't know anything about the mechanical properties of a
windsurfer mast either.....they crush easily...


S.Simon


Donals Dilemma wrote in message
om...


On Tue, 2 Dec 2003 18:14:13 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



The outboard motor can be used for steerage if the rudder
breaks off. I have suitable wood and nuts and bolts to make
a foil to attach to the shaft of the outboard motor which
pivots.

You can bolt taht all in place in a seaway in adverse conditions
without falling over the side?



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.




Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Why was this posted?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport

Well, I like Doug, so I won't comment.

All boats have limitations, but a sailor doesn't have to be limited by his
or her boat.

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
I can see you are aware of the limitations of the vessel you own. That
is a good sign. Now take that fool DSK whon thinks a Bolger micro with
open bow(!) and ustayed rig is a better seaboat than a Cornish crabber.
With ideas like that it's not surising he's run away from sailing. He
probably thinks that 50' from shore is offshore!

Cheers MC


Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Given that I've only had my boat out the Gate once and given that
it's only 20 feet, I'm not sure I can say that it's seaworthy as far
as offshore goes. In fact, I'm sure it isn't. It is capable of safe
operation in the bay, however. I carry all required safety
equipment, and I have lots of extra good-idea items also. Here,
the CG is only interested in you if you're either boarded on a
spot inspection or get into trouble. There is little, if any
consideration
given to prevention. You would not believe some of the vessels
that transit the bay no less leave the bay. People die and boats
capsize and sink quite regularly in the bay itself. Many of the
reasons are alcohol related, but a lot are either due to stupidity or
a crap boat (well, I guess those are the same thing).

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

It seems to me that there is not much idea around here as to what
constitutes seaworthiness. Here in NZ the conditions are more
challenging than in many other places and to sail offshore requires
great attention to detail and sound knowlege of your vessel. Many people
here might consider their vessels "seaworthy", but let me remind you
that seworthiness is a state of preparedness and safely for major
passages and suitabiliuty for storm conditions.

Here in NZ we have to get vessels inspected every 2 years for their
seaworthiness and without a CAT1 clearance the vessel is not allowed to
leave (if owned by a NZ resident). The inspection takes up to ~2 hours
and the inspector also questions the skipper on hisd seamanship (it
helps if you already have qualifications like Ocean yactmaster or even
Coastal skipper) for it is also the application his knowlege that makes
the vessel seaworthy (or not). In many cases vessel arrive here from
overseas which are patently unseaworthy and these days they are allowed
to leave -after a strong talking to by the inspector as to why their
vessels are unsuitable and what will likely happen to them in bad
conditions. For that reason, it would seem that many US and EU vessels
arrive but never leave.

When the real sailor thinks about his vessel he thinks about how she
will cope if hit by storm force winds in the open sea if he wishes to
call his vessel seaworthy. If the vessel is not seworthy then it is just
a toy for amusement on nice fair wind days. The question is, to you
have a toy or a seaworthy vessel? How many people here even have a strom
jib?

Cheers MC

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 00:34:30 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


It really did feel like that the last time! We came into port with only
*one* halyard! (bear in mind that we knew that we needed a halyard to
get
someone up the mast!)

Why?

To reinstall the other halyards!




Nobody wore pantyhose!
Thermals?


Possibly. I didn't check.


Regards


Donal
--

Donals Dilemma wrote in message
...
On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 10:37:32 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:

To reinstall the other halyards!

Hmmm, you need afew fit Aussies as crew.
One of my crew could easily shin up a mast at the dock, tie off a
block, run a chair line then come back down, haul himself back up and
drop a mouse thru the mast.

This is Europe! We have Health and Safety laws. I'd have to do a written
risk assessment, a method statement, a training course for the crew, etc,
etc.

Actually, I've just realised that we have a new law that says that we need a
passage plan before we go sea!!! It must include a weather forecast, and
(I think) a risk assessment. AAARRRRRGGGGGG!





Nobody wore pantyhose!
Thermals?


Possibly. I didn't check.

Panties and garter belts I'd suspect...any of them public school boys?

Only one!

Regards


Donal
--

Donals Dilemma wrote:

haul himself back up and
drop a mouse thru the mast.


I'll bet that'd upset the folks from
the local SPCA!

Cheers
Marty