On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:30:11 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:

Have you flown a Metro?

Yes, a Metro III for several thousand hours as a regional airline
captain and a Metro II for a few hundred flying freight and mail.

Document?

Google it or ask the next Metro driver you run into.

You obviously are not a pilot of an aircraft.

Silly woman.

All aircraft I have ever
flown, you trim up to take off the pressure of the yoke (control column).

I guess someone else sets the trim for you then. They probably set it
nose low so you won't over-rotate and drag the tail or pitch up and
stall or as soon as you lift off. That is a good way to teach students
the use of trim without risking much besides wheelbarrowing down the
runway.

You trim for speed. If the trim is set too nose high before takeoff,
as the aircraft accelerates it will tend to increase pitch and stick
forces pushing the nose down. The opposite will occur if the trim is
set too nose low, as in the case Oz described.

Generally the
trim in motion indicator is dinging throughout the initial climb ...

What????

The Metro has a sonalert in the overhead that beeps whenever the trim
motor is running. Trim on a Metro is very powerful due to the large CG
range and a runaway trim can very guickly create very high stick
forces so the feds required a trim in motion signal to alert the crew
that the trim motor is running. Since it is used so much during
takeoff and landing it sometimes frightens passengers, especially on
takeoff when they suddenly hear what they believe to be an alarm going
off in the cockpit.

Please elaborate!

What more do you need?



Rick

"Rick" wrote:

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:30:11 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:

Have you flown a Metro?

Yes, a Metro III for several thousand hours as a regional airline
captain and a Metro II for a few hundred flying freight and mail.

I apologize, I re-read your last post and I got a wrong impression on how
you worded the way you "stay focused on your trim".

As I said in my last post to Oz, there are many aircraft, just not the Metro
that has had this problem with the trim installed in reverse.

Please accept my apologies,

LP

Document?

Google it or ask the next Metro driver you run into.

You obviously are not a pilot of an aircraft.

Silly woman.

All aircraft I have ever
flown, you trim up to take off the pressure of the yoke (control column).

I guess someone else sets the trim for you then. They probably set it
nose low so you won't over-rotate and drag the tail or pitch up and
stall or as soon as you lift off. That is a good way to teach students
the use of trim without risking much besides wheelbarrowing down the
runway.

You trim for speed. If the trim is set too nose high before takeoff,
as the aircraft accelerates it will tend to increase pitch and stick
forces pushing the nose down. The opposite will occur if the trim is
set too nose low, as in the case Oz described.

Generally the
trim in motion indicator is dinging throughout the initial climb ...

What????

The Metro has a sonalert in the overhead that beeps whenever the trim
motor is running. Trim on a Metro is very powerful due to the large CG
range and a runaway trim can very guickly create very high stick
forces so the feds required a trim in motion signal to alert the crew
that the trim motor is running. Since it is used so much during
takeoff and landing it sometimes frightens passengers, especially on
takeoff when they suddenly hear what they believe to be an alarm going
off in the cockpit.

Please elaborate!

What more do you need?



Rick

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:21:48 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:


Please accept my apologies,

No problem.

Just be careful about drawing broad conclusions about flying from too
little information from too shallow a database and you will be a much
better airplane driver as well as technical analyst. 8-)

Years ago, while an instructor, I was also an APC, an accident
prevention counselor, and I remember a humbling conversation with an
FAA inspector who was a bit annoyed at my rapid conclusion that
someone or other had done something so foolish as to be beyond
comprehension and forgiveness.

He picked up a coffee cup from his desk and asked what I saw. I told
him he was holding a cup of coffee with a spoon in it.

He showed me the sand in the cup as he removed the fork.

Rick

"Rick" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:21:48 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:


Please accept my apologies,

No problem.

Just be careful about drawing broad conclusions about flying from too
little information from too shallow a database and you will be a much
better airplane driver as well as technical analyst. 8-)

I don't feel like what I said was drawing any conclusions but the basic
principle I was taught by my flight instuctors. They always said, "make
little corrections, and then see what happens...". It was repeated over and
over to me until I became an above average pilot. As an instructor, tell me
what my instructors told me that was wrong?

Years ago, while an instructor, I was also an APC, an accident
prevention counselor, and I remember a humbling conversation with an
FAA inspector who was a bit annoyed at my rapid conclusion that
someone or other had done something so foolish as to be beyond
comprehension and forgiveness.

I am never quick to judge a pilot for any mishaps! I don't know where you
came up with that conclusion. I was just parroting what I was taught and
why the pilot in question made a few errors in judgement, in my opinion.

LP

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:48:04 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:


I don't feel like what I said was drawing any conclusions but the basic
principle I was taught by my flight instuctors. They always said, "make
little corrections, and then see what happens...".

They were teaching you the basics of piloting and aircraft opertion.
They were not instructing you on a type rating on a transport category
aircraft. There is a big difference in technique and purpose.

You are still learning to read, you are not quite ready to critique
Hemingway.

. As an instructor, tell me what my instructors told me that was wrong?

For the aircraft you were flying, the conditions and your abilities,
nothing. That does not mean that have learned everything about flying
every airplane in every configuration and condition and can
pontificate on what that crew did wrong.

I am never quick to judge a pilot for any mishaps! I don't know where you
came up with that conclusion.

I came up with it from this statement:

" I'm the one who brought up the pilot's incompetence. ...
If this guy was one of my pilots, I would have a talk with the DO
(Director of Operations) and have the guy reviewed.
On the other hand if he was my DO, I would seriously be
looking around for someone to replace him."

I was just parroting what I was taught and
why the pilot in question made a few errors in judgement, in my opinion.

"Just parroting" what an instructor tells an ab initio student and
applying that to an entirely different circumstance in a very
different type of aircraft is a large error in judgement and that is
not just an opinion.

Don't just parrot., try and learn what it means and why so you can at
least paraphrase it.

Rick

"Rick" wrote:
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:48:04 -0600, "Lady Pilot"

They were teaching you the basics of piloting and aircraft opertion.

Yes, and Dave the Metro Captain didn't obey that simple rule!

They were not instructing you on a type rating on a transport category
aircraft. There is a big difference in technique and purpose.

Non sequitur.

You are still learning to read, you are not quite ready to critique
Hemingway.

Come back when you finish reading "Run Spot Run".

"Just parroting" what an instructor tells an ab initio student and
applying that to an entirely different circumstance in a very
different type of aircraft is a large error in judgement and that is
not just an opinion.

Did I mention I used to own a DC-3? LOL!

Actually, what I've learned from my flight instructor being with him over 40
hours a week for many years, has saved me in a couple of emergency
situations.

LP

You a slow learner too?

Cheers MC

Lady Pilot wrote:


Actually, what I've learned from my flight instructor being with him over 40
hours a week for many years, has saved me in a couple of emergency
situations.