ROFLMAO ..... Ya got's me quakin in me boots, now, Neal .... NOT!!!

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
If I didn't feel sorry for you I'd get your license
yanked. Keep it up and I might stop feeling sorry
for you. You've demonstrated time and time again
you're not really competent to be at the helm of
anything but very small ships.

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...

ROFLMAO

otn

Simple Simon wrote:

Like I said, my paperwork is in order. But if some desk
jockey wishes to play games a call or memo from the Pentagon
does wonders.

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...


A true professional, needs neither political contacts or friends in high
places to get his/her license renewed in a timely fashion ...... just
properly documented proof of experience and all the necessary test,
completed ..... so, you are now saying you need to go the "backdoor"
route to get your "learners permit" renewed?

otn

Simple Simon wrote:


Don't worry your acne-scarred face, boy!

You will see. I will get my license renewed
in record time. I have contacts. I'm very
well placed politically and have friends
in VERY high places. You can only wish
to have the powerful contacts I enjoy.

S.Simon


"Rick" wrote in message ...



On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:10:14 -0500, Nil wrote:




I'll post an update in two or three weeks here when I receive
my new license. The old one expires on the 25th of this month
so they'll expedite it so as not to put me out of work. They
won't wish to cause any undue hardship to a respected Master.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Since you are not a working mariner, don't hold an MMD, and are
unqualified to work commercially your ego app has been put at the
bottom of the list with all the others.

The coasties don't have time to waste on wannabe hobbyists because
they realise that real masters and working mariners are their
"customers," not the likes of you.

Too bad there isn't a bit tighter evaluation of mental stability on
the toyboat medical exam.

"Respected master" Bwahahahahahahahahahaha Derelict laughingstock is
more like it.


Rick

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 16:21:32 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:



Then the installer or the inspector would catch the
error long before it ever got to the customer.

S.Simon

Ya think?
Friend of mine was nearly killed in a light plane crash.
Was doing the test flight after a major and it wanted to dive in after
takeoff even as he pulled back and trimmed up.
Twigged seconds before impact that the more he trimmed up the worse it
got.....trim wheel was installed upside down despite checks, rechecks
and preflight it had been missed.

That's bull****, Ozzy. Preflight for a small aircraft is at neutral, then
you trim accordingly at take-off. If it goes the opposite way, any pilot
who flies "by the seat of his pants" would know not to keep trimming the
damn aircraft all the way to the ground. Was the your son, flight student?

Would you trim the sails for the opposite direction and not figure out what
is wrong? Pretty much the same thing to me...

LP

Neal funny in a really sick sort of way...

LP (can't help but laugh, God help me)


"otnmbrd" wrote:
ROFLMAO ..... Ya got's me quakin in me boots, now, Neal .... NOT!!!

otn

Simple Simon wrote:
crap snipped

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:01:12 +1100, Capetanios Oz wrote:

OK LP, I found it
http://www.billzilla.org/flying3.html
Seems it's normal to trim a Metro nose up after takeoff.
http://www.billzilla.org/aviation.htm


The FO's continuing to trim in increasing pitch forces indicates he
may have lacked experience in the aircraft.

Trim operation in a Metro is as much a part of flying that aircraft as
breathing and watching the trim indicator while operating it is part
of the preflight checks. Runaway trim in the Metro is a well
documented problem and training includes a great deal of attention to
trim operation.

Trimming is as likely to be nose down as nose up after takeoff, it all
depends on how the pilot flying likes the thing to feel and how
accurate the manifest was when the takeoff trim was set. Generally the
trim in motion indicator is dinging throughout the initial climb ...
it used to frighten the passengers to the point that we mentioned it
in the preflight passenger briefing.

Rick

Capetanios Oz wrote:
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:30:35 -0600, "Lady Pilot" wrote:

That's bull****, Ozzy. Preflight for a small aircraft is at neutral,
then
you trim accordingly at take-off. If it goes the opposite way, any pilot
who flies "by the seat of his pants" would know not to keep trimming the
damn aircraft all the way to the ground. Was the your son, flight
student?

Would you trim the sails for the opposite direction and not figure out
what
is wrong? Pretty much the same thing to me...

LP


Sorry LP, but that's that way it was recounted to me.

I'm not saying anything about your account of the mishap. I was refering to
the pilot in question. Comments interspered.

I believe they thought something else was going on, getting
progresively worse and were attempting to trim as elevator was all
used up.

See my comments on the next post.

Fortunately, thay kept thinking and DID figure out what was wrong.
He actually has the story somewhere on the net, I'll see if I can find
it.

Yes, I think your friend Bill saved Dave's life. But Dave should have known
better...

Oh and my son is a student, got his Class1 the other day and will go
full time ATP next year, CIR twin.

Congrats on your son. I'm not quite sure how to translate a Class 1 with a
Private License. It seems that Europe, Canada, and Australia are "governed"
by IACO. In other words, when we in the US get a private license, we don't
have to get the night endorsement that you guys do. There are many other
international rules that govern these kind of things.

Maybe you could confirm with Bertie? ;-)

Flying a Warrior II at the moment and will eventually work up to the
schools Duchess. Next step is onto their Citation II but that's a long
way off.

Sounds like a lot of money for ratings....you were right, your son is very
smart!

LOL!

LP (all in fun)

Capetanios Oz wrote:

OK LP, I found it
http://www.billzilla.org/flying3.html

Also, I have a problem with a couple of things your friend said in his
website:

1. Quote "After confirmation by the engineers that the trim was working
back to front, they quickly figured out was what wrong - The actual trim
switches were installed (By George!) upside down, hence when you commanded a
nose-up trim, it actually trimmed nose down. That was what was bugging me,
but I couldn't put my finger on it! "
__________________________________________________ _

Oz, I really doubt that your friend could have known about the trim in a
preflight unless one guy was at the controls and the other guy outside
judging his movement on the trim vs. the elevator. You can preflight the
ailerons by moving the yoke (control column) to the right and the right
aileron goes down while the left goes up and visa versa. Same with pulling
back on the control column (yoke) the elevator goes up and down. But you
can't normally preflight a trim.

BTW, upside down trims cause many accidents and deaths every year...it's
only the wise ones that survive...

LP

Seems it's normal to trim a Metro nose up after takeoff.
http://www.billzilla.org/aviation.htm

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:49:25 +1100, Capetanios Oz wrote:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 22:30:35 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:

That's bull****, Ozzy. Preflight for a small aircraft is at neutral,
then
you trim accordingly at take-off. If it goes the opposite way, any
pilot
who flies "by the seat of his pants" would know not to keep trimming the
damn aircraft all the way to the ground. Was the your son, flight
student?

Would you trim the sails for the opposite direction and not figure out
what
is wrong? Pretty much the same thing to me...

LP





Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

"Rick" wrote: The FO's continuing to trim in
increasing pitch forces indicates he
may have lacked experience in the aircraft.

Trim operation in a Metro is as much a part of flying that aircraft as
breathing and watching the trim indicator while operating it is part
of the preflight checks.

Have you flown a Metro?

Runaway trim in the Metro is a well
documented problem and training includes a great deal of attention to
trim operation.

Document?

Trimming is as likely to be nose down as nose up after takeoff, it all
depends on how the pilot flying likes the thing to feel and how
accurate the manifest was when the takeoff trim was set.

You obviously are not a pilot of an aircraft. All aircraft I have ever
flown, you trim up to take off the pressure of the yoke (control column).

Generally the
trim in motion indicator is dinging throughout the initial climb ...

What????

it used to frighten the passengers to the point that we mentioned it
in the preflight passenger briefing.

Rick

Please elaborate!

LP (who did you fly passengers for?)

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:30:11 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:

Have you flown a Metro?

Yes, a Metro III for several thousand hours as a regional airline
captain and a Metro II for a few hundred flying freight and mail.

Document?

Google it or ask the next Metro driver you run into.

You obviously are not a pilot of an aircraft.

Silly woman.

All aircraft I have ever
flown, you trim up to take off the pressure of the yoke (control column).

I guess someone else sets the trim for you then. They probably set it
nose low so you won't over-rotate and drag the tail or pitch up and
stall or as soon as you lift off. That is a good way to teach students
the use of trim without risking much besides wheelbarrowing down the
runway.

You trim for speed. If the trim is set too nose high before takeoff,
as the aircraft accelerates it will tend to increase pitch and stick
forces pushing the nose down. The opposite will occur if the trim is
set too nose low, as in the case Oz described.

Generally the
trim in motion indicator is dinging throughout the initial climb ...

What????

The Metro has a sonalert in the overhead that beeps whenever the trim
motor is running. Trim on a Metro is very powerful due to the large CG
range and a runaway trim can very guickly create very high stick
forces so the feds required a trim in motion signal to alert the crew
that the trim motor is running. Since it is used so much during
takeoff and landing it sometimes frightens passengers, especially on
takeoff when they suddenly hear what they believe to be an alarm going
off in the cockpit.

Please elaborate!

What more do you need?



Rick

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:54:12 +1100, Capetanios Oz wrote:

Document?
I found one documented case.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/...8/a97c0168.asp
Related to a failure not a common fault

That incident was caused by a failure of the mechanism that prevents
reversing of the horizontal stabilizer acutator from its set position.
It was not a runaway trim incident as such. It was more a slamming of
the stabilizer to its limits due to a failure of the actuator, not
the uncontrolled operation of the trim motor.

Rick

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:23:02 -0600, "Lady Pilot"
wrote:


Oz, I really doubt that your friend could have known about the trim in a
preflight unless one guy was at the controls and the other guy outside
judging his movement on the trim vs. the elevator. ...
But you can't normally preflight a trim.

All the captain had to do was look to his right and down at the trim
indicator to see that the aircraft was trimming nose down. That is
what he did and how he knew what was wrong.

The trim is always preflighted. Trim operation and movement as
displayed by the trim indicator is part of the prestart checkist. The
switch is on the yoke, it is operted by thumb and the indicator shows
the direction and range of travel. Control pressure tells which way
you need to trim.

The FO thought like you do. He could only operate the switch in the
direction he was trained and used to. He fixated on what he felt and
what he was used to doing, rather than stopping to take a look at the
indicator he ignored on the preflight checks.

Rick