Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:21:35 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:


Hey, I went to bed!

However, I *do* know the answer.

Now.


Well done!


Regards


Donal
--

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...
Bear off.


Wrong! BIG time!

Oz is obviously an expert. Perhaps he can explain why you are completely
wrong!



Regards


Donal
--

No. That would put them lower on the "pecking order." Besides, the courts have not
looked with favor on such attempts to circumvent the intent of the law.


"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message
...
Does a small fishing boat flying a kite to fish become a sailboat?

The_navigator© wrote:

Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but
are just too stubborn.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.



You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot
that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you
do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

My reading comprehension must be nil. I thought you meant "wind" surfer. The
suit example I gave you was a collision between a wind surfer and a power
boat.
John Cairns
"Donal" wrote in message
...

"Simple Simon" wrote in message
...

Kite surfers are not, by the definition sailboats
because they have no sails. The kite is attached
to the operator and not to the board. A board
is neither a sailboat nor is it a motor boat to
be sure. At present it is a gray area under the
Rules that needs to be cleared up.

Top marks!




Regards


Donal
--

Capetanios Oz wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 15:44:24 -0000, "Donal"
wrote:

Would it have mattered?


Was this many years before you had the snip? Did you have kids after the
incident?


Regards


Donal
--

A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast
tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to
operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live.

There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under
water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody
standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies.

Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to
accept the obvious.

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...
Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement
sailboat vs. a planing motor boat.

Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person
unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and
dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel.

Here is the definition again.

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable
of
being used as a means of transportation on water.

Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft.

wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat

© 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one
stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not
watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along
rapidly to stay on the surface.

S.Simon


S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

That won't do. The definition is circular. The OED defines a water craft
as a vessel that plies on the water. Note: On the water.

Now what about a windsurfer, is that a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement
sailboat vs. a planing motor boat.

Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person
unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and
dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel.

Here is the definition again.

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of
being used as a means of transportation on water.

Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft.

wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat

© 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one
stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not
watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along
rapidly to stay on the surface.

S.Simon


S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board.
Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail
is attached to them and can power them fast enough to
stay on the surface and go from place to place.

A windsurfer is a small sailboat.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

A submarine is ON water. What the hell do you think supports it?
Does the water upon which it floats not count? It matters not
if there is water above the hull as well.

No dilemma that I can see . . .

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...

Ahh but Cappy, you who refers to the Merian W at every opportunity,
has failed to notice that your definition states that a vessel is one
that is used or capable of transportation ON water.
You see the dilema?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:31:39 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

A submarine does not sink to the bottom. It has ballast
tanks to keep it at the depths in which it chooses to
operate. It carries air so the crew can breathe and live.

There is a big difference between a vessel traveling under
water and a device that goes to the bottom with somebody
standing on it until the person runs out of air and dies.

Sooooooo stupid with your dumb attempts to refuse to
accept the obvious.

S.Simon

Capetanios Oz wrote in message ...
Interesting, a submarine is not a vessel when submerged?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:00:04 -0500, "Simple Simon"
wrote:

But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement
sailboat vs. a planing motor boat.

Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person
unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and
dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel.

Here is the definition again.

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or
capable
of
being used as a means of transportation on water.

Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft.

wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat

© 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one
stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not
watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along
rapidly to stay on the surface.

S.Simon


S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.






Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

That a sailboard sinks when becalmed is not germane to
the fact that it is still a vessel. It is a vessel because it
has a sail attached that moves it along on the water when
the wind comes up. A kite board has no such sail attached.
In the same manner a water ski has no such propulsion of
any kind attached. Neither is a vessel. The only way either
of them stay on the water is when being dragged along by
an outside force that is not even applied directly to them.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
So the fact that it sinks when becalmed is irrelevant?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board.
Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail
is attached to them and can power them fast enough to
stay on the surface and go from place to place.

A windsurfer is a small sailboat.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.