Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:

"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but
are just too stubborn.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

NO! The water ski and the kite board without the
help of a towing vessel or a kite cannot transport
anybody anywhere. Neither kite board or water
ski can possibly be a vessel. Take an extreme
example, the water skier who skis on his own
two bare feet, I'm sure you've seen it done.
Are the skier's two feet vessels? Is the skier
a catamaran then? Bwahahahahhahahahha!

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but
are just too stubborn.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

No the skier is a person and not a vessel. Your argument is illogical.
Is a ship with no motive power not a vessel? What about a barge?
Bwhahhahhahahaa -as you say.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

NO! The water ski and the kite board without the
help of a towing vessel or a kite cannot transport
anybody anywhere. Neither kite board or water
ski can possibly be a vessel. Take an extreme
example, the water skier who skis on his own
two bare feet, I'm sure you've seen it done.
Are the skier's two feet vessels? Is the skier
a catamaran then? Bwahahahahhahahahha!

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but
are just too stubborn.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:



"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...



I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

A water ski and a kite board in and of themselves
cannot be defined as vessels. The person that stands
on both is being pulled either by a boat or a kite. The
person drags the ski or the board along fast enough
so it gets up on plane. Both board and ski are more of
an implement or a piece of apparel and not a vessel.
Is a snorkeler's pair of swim fins to be called a vessel?
Anybody who cannot see this valid point is an imbecile.

S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
No the skier is a person and not a vessel. Your argument is illogical.
Is a ship with no motive power not a vessel? What about a barge?
Bwhahhahhahahaa -as you say.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

NO! The water ski and the kite board without the
help of a towing vessel or a kite cannot transport
anybody anywhere. Neither kite board or water
ski can possibly be a vessel. Take an extreme
example, the water skier who skis on his own
two bare feet, I'm sure you've seen it done.
Are the skier's two feet vessels? Is the skier
a catamaran then? Bwahahahahhahahahha!

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...

Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but
are just too stubborn.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:


Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...


You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:



"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...



I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.


You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--

The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

But, the colregs don't define displacement as not floating at all.
The word displacement means non-planing as in a displacement
sailboat vs. a planing motor boat.

Any craft or device that sinks out from under a person
unless the person is being pulled along at a good clip and
dragging the device along with him is clearly not a vessel.

Here is the definition again.

(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of watercraft, including non-displacement craft and seaplanes, used or capable of
being used as a means of transportation on water.

Note the word 'watercraft'. Here is the defintion of watercraft.

wa.ter.craft \-'kraft\ n : a craft for water transport : ship, boat

© 1995 Zane Publishing, Inc. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary © 1994 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated

A board or a ski that has no way to be powered and sinks when one
stands on it cannot transport anything anywhere. These are not
watercraft. These are devices used by a person being pulled along
rapidly to stay on the surface.

S.Simon


S.Simon

"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
The colregs clearly say the vessel need not be diplacement. In that
sense, a ski is simply overloaded and sinks when not planing. They also
float without people on them!

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

Yes, because the sails are attached directly to the board.
Even small (sinker) boards are sailboats because the sail
is attached to them and can power them fast enough to
stay on the surface and go from place to place.

A windsurfer is a small sailboat.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message ...
Is a windsurfer a vessel?

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

You are clearly wrong. A kite board sinks when the
operator stands on it. A water ski also sinks when
the operator stands on it. Clearly neither is a vessel.

A barge floats when cargo or people are on it. Even if
it has no power it can drift from place to place with
the winds and current. A barge clearly is a vessel.

Does a small fishing boat flying a kite to fish become a sailboat?

The_navigator© wrote:

Again, what is the definition of a vessel? Is a trolling line capable of
transport? No. Is a kite surfing board? I think you know the answer but
are just too stubborn.

Cheers MC

Simple Simon wrote:

Your logic is anything but logical.

A kite boarder is not recognized by the COLREGS
as a vessel. The kite, whether you call it a sail or
not, is attached to the person and not the board.


The board is not a vessel any more than a water ski
is a vessel or a trolling line is a vessel or a taffrail
log is a vessel or a chum bag is a vessel or a parasailer
is a vessel.

S.Simon


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...

You still miss the point. Colregs apply to all vessels on the water. A
kite surfer can carry you from one place to another and is therefore a
vessel. As a vessel it is not powered by machinery or oars and is
therefore a sailing vessel or NUC. As the kite fits the definaition of a
sail I say it is a sailing vessel. Since they are not showing the day
shapes for NUC my logic prevails and they are a sailing vessel.

Cheers MC

Donal wrote:


"The_navigator©" wrote in message
...


I say you are both wrong. In fact the kite surfer is a sailboat under
existing Colregs. This is beacuse 1) the colregs describe all vessels
(3a) and (2) the "kite" is used as a means of propulsion and is
therefore a sail -by legal definition.



You should know better than to claim that I am wrong.

I awarded top marks to Neal because he is the only person to spot
that the
kite surfers constitute a "gray area" that needs to be cleared up.

Personally, I feel that they are sailing vessels.

Why has nobody answered the original question? ie What would you
do if
you were on a (starboard tack) collision course with a (port tack) kite
surfer?




Regards


Donal
--