My nephew was in a coma for around 2 weeks, my brother and his wife had to
make a decision to pull the plug or not. The doctors encouraged them to
pull it. Guess they needed the bed. Anyways, there's always that nagging
little 'what if'' thought afterwards.

SV

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
That person would have to be in a coma to not be able to respond or
communicate.

CM

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| Good question. I'll answer that with another one... what about
| the situation where, as you say, the person hasn't specifically
| expressed a wish to be euthanised, but is in obvious agony
| and can not speak, and of course, there is no reasonable
| outlook for recovery or improvement? Moreover, what if
| that "person" is an animal that can't express its thoughts, but
| is just as obviously in pain most or all of the time?
|
| I am not an advocate of euthanasia per se. I am an advocate
| of treating people with respect, especially if they voice their
| wishes.
|
| "Wally" wrote in message
| ...
| Jonathan Ganz wrote:
| For me, the most humane option when one sees a loved one
| suffering is to try and end the suffering of that person or other
| being. I can't speak to whether or not this particular blind (or
| otherwise afflicted) cat was suffering, but I can speak to not
| wanting a loved one to suffer and seeking to end that suffering,
| especially when that loved one can no longer do anything but
| beg to have an end to it.
|
| If the loved one hasn't expressed a wish to be euthanised, is it still
| humane?
|
|
| --
| Wally
| www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
| Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.
|
|
|
|
|

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:19:10 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:

My nephew was in a coma for around 2 weeks, my brother and his wife had to
make a decision to pull the plug or not. The doctors encouraged them to
pull it. Guess they needed the bed. Anyways, there's always that nagging
little 'what if'' thought afterwards.

Ganz has been in a coma for the last two years.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

And I just bet you'd like to 'pull his plug'.

SV

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:19:10 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:

My nephew was in a coma for around 2 weeks, my brother and his wife had
to
make a decision to pull the plug or not. The doctors encouraged them to
pull it. Guess they needed the bed. Anyways, there's always that
nagging
little 'what if'' thought afterwards.

Ganz has been in a coma for the last two years.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

Actually, that's not necessarily true, as I can attest to from having a
close relative in the situation. He was in agony, was conscious, but
couldn't communicate.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...
That person would have to be in a coma to not be able to respond or
communicate.

CM

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
| Good question. I'll answer that with another one... what about
| the situation where, as you say, the person hasn't specifically
| expressed a wish to be euthanised, but is in obvious agony
| and can not speak, and of course, there is no reasonable
| outlook for recovery or improvement? Moreover, what if
| that "person" is an animal that can't express its thoughts, but
| is just as obviously in pain most or all of the time?
|
| I am not an advocate of euthanasia per se. I am an advocate
| of treating people with respect, especially if they voice their
| wishes.
|
| "Wally" wrote in message
| ...
| Jonathan Ganz wrote:
| For me, the most humane option when one sees a loved one
| suffering is to try and end the suffering of that person or other
| being. I can't speak to whether or not this particular blind (or
| otherwise afflicted) cat was suffering, but I can speak to not
| wanting a loved one to suffer and seeking to end that suffering,
| especially when that loved one can no longer do anything but
| beg to have an end to it.
|
| If the loved one hasn't expressed a wish to be euthanised, is it still
| humane?
|
|
| --
| Wally
| www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
| Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.
|
|
|
|
|

Horass, if you were in a coma, you would be acting a lot smarter.

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:19:10 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:

My nephew was in a coma for around 2 weeks, my brother and his wife had
to
make a decision to pull the plug or not. The doctors encouraged them to
pull it. Guess they needed the bed. Anyways, there's always that
nagging
little 'what if'' thought afterwards.

Ganz has been in a coma for the last two years.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

I wish you hadn't given him the idea. Now he's going to make
even more frequent telephone calls!

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
And I just bet you'd like to 'pull his plug'.

SV

"Horvath" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 16:19:10 -0400, "Scott Vernon"
wrote this crap:

My nephew was in a coma for around 2 weeks, my brother and his wife had
to
make a decision to pull the plug or not. The doctors encouraged them
to
pull it. Guess they needed the bed. Anyways, there's always that
nagging
little 'what if'' thought afterwards.

Ganz has been in a coma for the last two years.


Hero@Horvath

I don't spend my money on food. I spend most of my money
on women, porn, booze, and recreation. The rest of it I just waste.

Like when Katy broke her leg?

Ending suffering doesn't need to go as far as euthanasia. Ending =
suffering can be relieving a person of stress, it can be a medical =
option of administering drugs that may otherwise not be given, such as =
in a Hospice situation. And it wasn't I that suffered so much with my =
broken leg but all of you for having to listen to me about it. Did my =
little sadistic heart some good and helped relieve whatever real =
suffering I was suffering...

--=20
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein

Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Good question. I'll answer that with another one... what about
the situation where, as you say, the person hasn't specifically
expressed a wish to be euthanised, but is in obvious agony
and can not speak, and of course, there is no reasonable
outlook for recovery or improvement?

I have no wish to die at the hands of another, and I don't think I have the
right to make that decision for someone else who is unable to express a view
one way or the other. Pain is a 'now' concept and tomorrow is another day.


Moreover, what if
that "person" is an animal that can't express its thoughts, but
is just as obviously in pain most or all of the time?

We can't read their minds and we infer that they're in pain by observing
their behaviours. I sometimes wonder if people have a sick pet put down
because they can't face the prospect of watching it die a slow death.


I am not an advocate of euthanasia per se. I am an advocate
of treating people with respect, especially if they voice their
wishes.


It's my view that, to euthanise someone 'with respect', their wish that this
be done is a prerequisite.


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

Not from what I've seen. It's easy to say pain is a now concept.
It's another to either be in the now for weeks/months on end or
watch someone wither away who is.

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Jonathan Ganz wrote:

Good question. I'll answer that with another one... what about
the situation where, as you say, the person hasn't specifically
expressed a wish to be euthanised, but is in obvious agony
and can not speak, and of course, there is no reasonable
outlook for recovery or improvement?

I have no wish to die at the hands of another, and I don't think I have
the
right to make that decision for someone else who is unable to express a
view
one way or the other. Pain is a 'now' concept and tomorrow is another day.


Moreover, what if
that "person" is an animal that can't express its thoughts, but
is just as obviously in pain most or all of the time?

We can't read their minds and we infer that they're in pain by observing
their behaviours. I sometimes wonder if people have a sick pet put down
because they can't face the prospect of watching it die a slow death.


I am not an advocate of euthanasia per se. I am an advocate
of treating people with respect, especially if they voice their
wishes.


It's my view that, to euthanise someone 'with respect', their wish that
this
be done is a prerequisite.


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

Capt. Mooron wrote:

I was meaning the option to put down or not put down, rather than
the method of putting down.

The option is always there Wally..... the methods vary. Generally it
would mean in this context that the critter was a goner anyway,
eventually, so the choice was made for it. Go gentle into that good
night now... or rage against the dying of the light later.

Your use of "gentle" paints a picture of the vet's injection that isn't
neccessarily true.


Humane is an intent.... the reality is the outcome remains the same.
If the cat had learned to talk... it could have decided whether it
would rather die in a battle with an enraged pitbull or gently in
it's sleep having it's tummy rubbed and ear scratched.

Those two scenarios are polarised and don't really reflect the spread that
exists in reality.


Some Asian family is starving because they can't afford to buy a cat
or dog for supper and we're burying $1500 cats. Is there no justice?

Perhaps that would be better placed in a thread concerned with politcs and
economics.


--
Wally
www.makearatherlonglinkthattakesyounowhere.com
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.