I carry a sextant and tables for HO249 and learned how
to use them about ten years ago. I haven't used them
since and would have to learn all over again.

Like I said, it's pretty useless knowing it. I feel should
I ever have the need to pick up my sextant again that
I could get a fix accurate to five or ten miles with a few
hours review.

S.Simon - a former HO249 student


"otnmbrd" wrote in message nk.net...
It depends on where you plan to cruise, and/or how much you want to know.
If during the majority of your cruising, you will stay within 1-2 days
of landfall, I wouldn't be too concerned about having the ability,
except as something you would care to know about.
However, if you will be making longer trips, out of sight of land, I
would consider it well worth the effort and ability.
You don't really need to know all the why's and wherefores of what you
are doing, but mainly the steps involved in going through the sight and
various tables, to come up with a solution (or basic inputs, for a
computer).
Although the Naval Academy does not make celestial a required course,
the Maritime Academies do, for those going for a deck license.
In reality, the choice is yours ..... you can carry a whole bunch of
spare batteries and handhelds, or a sextant, tables, and/or a calculator.
GPS advantage - turn it on and it works G
Celestial - needs practice to be good, and some never do become good.

otn

felton wrote:
I am wrestling with myself as to whether to continue my USPS course
work and sign up for the JN course, which is the first of two courses
dealing with celestial navigation. I have completed all the electives
and through Advanced Piloting, so it is decision time. I have heard
that even the Naval Academy doesn't teach celestial navigating skills
any longer.

Is celestial anything more than an interesting exercise these days or
is it worth the effort to learn for any meaningful use? Ultimately it
comes down to time invested/benefit to learn, like anything else.

At the risk of sounding "lubberly", I just wonder if this is time well
spent these days.

There are one thing in this thread that I think have been overlooked:

You should have 2 or 3 TOTALLY INDEPENDENT navigational aids. And when on a
passage - I'm thinking about more than a couple of days out of
sight of land - you would want systems that are not visually, terrestical,
based.

A backup handheld GPS is not "independent" of your normal GPS. Of course it
can be used if your normal GPS has a failure and if driven by AA batteries
it can function if your lead-accumulators have a malfunction, but if the GPS
system breaks down or is closed down, it won't function.

So what are the options ?
Radio-direction-finders.
Loran. (Is it still operational ?)
But if you run out of workable batteries and your electrical system is down,
these will also be out of order. (Water can do many things.)

It would be better to have a system that works without electricity at all.
Consequent dead-reconning, a good compass and a mechanical log could be an
option.
Celestial navigation an other - and with the advantage that it is
independent of what you have previously done or forgot to do.

So for a long distance cruiser I think that knowing how to use celestial
navigation is still a practical ability.

I agree that most sailors will not need this knowledge.

3 things speaks for celestial navigation:

1. It provides a totally independent means of determining a position when
out of sight of land. It is independent of man-made systems and
electricity.
2. It is fairly cheap and simple. A good plastic sextant will do the job.
(Chinese brass is recommended, because it is nicer to work with.)
3. It is fun and interesting, and it adds to your basic comprehension of the
universe and your position in it.

You can probably live without it, but if you sail the high seas it will
increase your safety and probably your appreciation of the world you live
in.

It's also quite dependent on weather. It's also tedious to do the numbers.
But, I agree, it's worth knowing. Then, when you miss Hawaii, you can
say with certainty... well, I only probably missed it by 60 nm.

"Aniculapeter" wrote in message
k...
There are one thing in this thread that I think have been overlooked:

You should have 2 or 3 TOTALLY INDEPENDENT navigational aids. And when on
a
passage - I'm thinking about more than a couple of days out of
sight of land - you would want systems that are not visually, terrestical,
based.

A backup handheld GPS is not "independent" of your normal GPS. Of course
it
can be used if your normal GPS has a failure and if driven by AA batteries
it can function if your lead-accumulators have a malfunction, but if the
GPS
system breaks down or is closed down, it won't function.

So what are the options ?
Radio-direction-finders.
Loran. (Is it still operational ?)
But if you run out of workable batteries and your electrical system is
down,
these will also be out of order. (Water can do many things.)

It would be better to have a system that works without electricity at all.
Consequent dead-reconning, a good compass and a mechanical log could be an
option.
Celestial navigation an other - and with the advantage that it is
independent of what you have previously done or forgot to do.

So for a long distance cruiser I think that knowing how to use celestial
navigation is still a practical ability.

I agree that most sailors will not need this knowledge.

3 things speaks for celestial navigation:

1. It provides a totally independent means of determining a position when
out of sight of land. It is independent of man-made systems and
electricity.
2. It is fairly cheap and simple. A good plastic sextant will do the job.
(Chinese brass is recommended, because it is nicer to work with.)
3. It is fun and interesting, and it adds to your basic comprehension of
the
universe and your position in it.

You can probably live without it, but if you sail the high seas it will
increase your safety and probably your appreciation of the world you live
in.

Ganz wrote:

It's also quite dependent on weather.

Yes.

It's also tedious to do the numbers.

No, not unles you venture into lunar distances or trying to do it by pure
math. Using H.O. 249 or doing noon hights is not that complicated.

But, I agree, it's worth knowing. Then, when you miss Hawaii, you can say
with certainty... well, I only probably missed it by 60 nm.

You have a point. Celestial navigation on a boat does not have the accuracy
that we get used to from GPS, but I think you should be able to do at least
10 times better.

"Aniculapeter" wrote in message 2. It is fairly cheap and simple. A good plastic sextant will do the job.
(Chinese brass is recommended, because it is nicer to work with.)

Chinese CRAP is more like it. Japanese Junk leave it alone, There
are several good american sextants, Any White is good, but if you want
to do it right get a captured German Plath and be proud of your
sextant I says!

Capt. American




3. It is fun and interesting, and it adds to your basic comprehension of the
universe and your position in it.

You can probably live without it, but if you sail the high seas it will
increase your safety and probably your appreciation of the world you live
in.

Might increase the appreciation of yourself and your abilities!

Capt. American

Capt. American wrote:

Chinese CRAP is more like it. Japanese Junk leave it alone, There
are several good american sextants, Any White is
good, but if you want
to do it right get a captured German Plath and be
proud of your sextant I says!

Yes, the Plath sextants are very nice - I would certainly like to own one -
but they are also very expensive. I think the "Cassens + Plath" brass is my
fauvorit, though I have only held it in a shop.
I think the Chinese gives very good value for money. An other reasonable
option is the smaller Baltic or Carl Zeiss Yacht sextant, also at an
affordable price (and low weight).

Might increase the appreciation of yourself and your abilities!

Yes. And probably even more so if you have captured the german Plath
yourself, but I assume you are not quite that old.

Peter S/Y Anicula