The Final Blow
 

One thing is absolutely certain. I *would* know the state of the tide.

Bobsprit didn't even know *why* I asked about the time of HW!!!!!

You mean, in the case of nav error, you'd rather make it with more water. Or
could you be referring to conditions known to be problematic when the ebb tide
goes against northerly or northwesterly winds? Nahhh. You couldn't know about
that!
What a joke!
This in itself indicates tremendous inexperience, but then you're 100% ignorant
of the area and a daysailor!

RB

The Final Blow
 

If you combine the above
with Radar and GPS it becomes fairly obvious that with basic mathematical
skills and some navigational understanding... a comprehensive picture of
what is required to access the destination can be formulated in short order

Why is that Mooron must constantly attack Suzanne? She did a fine job with no
mistakes. Taking some extra time to be certain of an entry will be the MO until
she's gotten more time to practice.
Mooron has NO point. None at all, I'm afraid...but he's sure hopping mad about
getting his ass kicked!

Bwahahahahaha!

RB

The Final Blow
 

Bob has described the entrance as follows:-
"In approaching Port Jefferson from any direction, it is wise to keep
offshore
and watch the chart carefully, as there are outlying rocks and shouls The
entrance is narrow and there is apt to be a strong tidal current in or out.
An
experienced cruising man warns that:
Sometimes a really dangerous sea makes up outside and between the jetties on
the ebb tide. Entering is possible at all times, providing some care is
taken.
Another experienced cruiser feels this is too strong a statement. Suffice it
to
say, treat it with respect."

I have that cruising guide. It is not just "LIS" but rather all of New
England, and while venerable and charming and informative about shopping in
port, it is not very good for navigation. It has no chartlets in it and
information often is inconsistent with reality. I am amazed that anyone would
set out for an unfamiliar port armed only with it and without proper charts. A
copy of Eldridge would also be wise to predict the current and tide not only
for that inlet, but also to take advantage of (or avoid) the currents available
along that entire trip.

The Final Blow
 

Hmmm so in your opinion, making several passes is a sign of panic not
caution. Different ends of the spectrum indeed, and a hasty conclusion
as well.

Yeah...we did panic on the second pass when we realized I forgot the damn bread
in the car!

RB

The Final Blow
 

So you don't know what is on the shore, what could be masking the
leads, house lights, factories, shopping centres,car lights, even a
disco or two.

There are very few shore lights at Port Jeff from the LIS. It wasn't Miami for
crying out loud.

The Final Blow
 

You really are making an arse of yourself with this one.
He was careful because he'd never been there before and was in no
hurry. He was prudent, sensible, wise, maybe even circumspect.
Fact is he got in there without stressing because when he made the
move he was then certain.

Well said. Note that no one has asked if we used the radar to make the
entrance.
Also ignored to make for better trolling: This was a learning experience for
Suzanne who is interested in the navigation and showed instant comprehension of
the basics. Following this little trip we've actually been talking about a
summer liveaboard sailboat.
Guess it must be the "fear and panic" effecting us!

RB

The Final Blow Job
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message ...
One thing is absolutely certain. I *would* know how to
give Ganz a blow job . . .

Hooooo Ha!!!

RB

The Final Blow
 

I am amazed that anyone would
set out for an unfamiliar port armed only with it and without proper charts.

Hmmm. As I indicated earlier, we had charts (Chart Kit/BBA/LIS), used ICW our
Garmin GPS-Map 76. While the GPS map worked accurately, suzanne prefered the
detail afforded by the charts. We also have quite a few big charts in addition
to the kit, but they're a bit ungainly.
I await your next lie, gentlemen! Imagine...it's come to this! I have all of
YOU lying now!

RB

The Final Blow
 

"The Captains Master" wrote in message
...


Ahhh but you fail to grasp the progress made by Bubbles in the last
few years. Eventually is a possibility.

No it isn't. It's taken him 5 years to do a 40 mile trip, and even then he
knows nothing about the nav involved. To make matters worse, he couldn't
understand why I asked about the state of tide.


C'mon Oz, let's face reality. If Bob actually made the trip, then there
must have been at least two other people aboard who didn't discuss the Nav
with him. He knew that he would be reporting back to the group, so he
would have been taking a great interest in the proceedings.

Why, then, did the other crew not explain things to him? You have two
choices. He is either far too stupid to even attempt an explanation, OR he
is such a novice that they couldn't be bothered.

I don't believe that he is stupid. So "eventually" is not a possibility.
Bobsprit is a novice after 5 years by choice, therefore he will always be a
novice.


I'm amazed that a wealthy man could be too dim to appreciate these simple
facts.

Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

There are very few shore lights at Port Jeff from the LIS. It wasn't Miami for
crying out loud.

Skitch, there's a ferry service in Port Jeff and the shore lights are BLINDING
as you approach. The damn ferry was showing a BRIGHT white light as well.
Looked like a damn refinery coming in and the Ferry was sleeping. There is also
some kind of treatment plant to starboard as you enter showing a lot of lights
along with the tugs that appeared to live there.

RB

The Final Blow
 

Bwaaahahahahahahahaha!
Wonder what they'll do for an encore?

Wait till we sail to Norwalk next week! It's gonna drive em mad!
They're really only upset about one simple thing...that we went at all. Clearly
Billy Jane day sails and races. I think Mooron may be upset that I have a
pretty & young wife who's getting into sailing happily. Even my "good friends"
are jealous of that. I just wish she'd stop asking if we can find a way to buy
a hobie cat!

RB

The Final Blow
 

No it isn't. It's taken him 5 years to do a 40 mile trip, and even then he
knows nothing about the nav involved.

Wrong...we actually took much longer trips in the Catalina 27. It was Ghost
that failed to really make anything further. Alien will be sailing to Great
Gull island and then Martha's Vineyard for her season opener in 2004. We are
very excited about it...should be fun.

RB

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
If you combine the above
with Radar and GPS it becomes fairly obvious that with basic mathematical
skills and some navigational understanding... a comprehensive picture of
what is required to access the destination can be formulated in short
order

Why is that Mooron must constantly attack Suzanne?

Are there no depths to which Bob will not sink? Hiding behind Suzanne's
skirts is an act of such cowardice, that I am surprised Bob would even
attempt it!




She did a fine job with no
mistakes.

....... And apparently she did it without any help from her useless husband!


Taking some extra time to be certain of an entry will be the MO until
she's gotten more time to practice.

Surely, if you knew anything at all about navigation, then you would at
least do a bit of your own passage planning???? .... just so that you could
help if needed???



Mooron has NO point. None at all, I'm afraid...but he's sure hopping mad
about
getting his ass kicked!

I'm sure that he is really feeling your pain. I'm in danger of feeling a
small amount of pity for you after the ignorance that you have displayed
recently.


Bwahahahahaha!

Your "Bwahahahah" has a slightly demented ring to it. Reminds me of "One
Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest".


Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

would a ''disco or two'' show up on radar?


"The Captains Basterd" wrote

| Is it crowded in there? Lots on lights on the shore?

Obviously not at 0200hrs... and since when do shorelights count when not
in
the background... or have you never considered alternate approaches?

So you don't know what is on the shore, what could be masking the
leads, house lights, factories, shopping centres,car lights, even a
disco or two.

The Final Blow
 

Uh huh,
He'll back off if you just agree with him.
Bully and Arse fit.

I'm not sure what he wants me to agree with. Could it be?
Ignore a cruising guide as a supplement to charts?
Taking care before entering a strange port at night is bad?
The mind boggles! He's just trolling. He started off quite friendly. When I
finally answered all questions and gave specifics he seemed to get enraged. Now
all he has is my observance of a book's comments and non-observance of bottom
contours.
I feel pretty sorry for him at this point. Donal was even smart enough to move
along to tidal elements.
Of course no one with a brain bigger than a pea would comment on a port they
never saw before. At this point I'm not even sure Billy Jane has been there.
And Skitchy suggests that it's a dark port, when it was lit like a christmas
tree even at 2:00 am.

RB

RB

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
One thing is absolutely certain. I *would* know the state of the tide.

Bobsprit didn't even know *why* I asked about the time of HW!!!!!

You mean, in the case of nav error, you'd rather make it with more water.

No!


Or
could you be referring to conditions known to be problematic when the ebb
tide
goes against northerly or northwesterly winds? Nahhh. You couldn't know
about
that!

I've no idea which way the entrance faces.


What a joke!
This in itself indicates tremendous inexperience, but then you're 100%
ignorant
of the area and a daysailor!

Uh oh! You are calling *me* a daysailor??

It's time for a reality check, Bob.



Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

goes against northerly or northwesterly winds? Nahhh. You couldn't know
about
that!

I've no idea which way the entrance faces.

Good lord, Donal. Why do this to yourself? I haven't the heart to hurt you
anymore this evening.
Yes, your comments indicate a daysailor mentality.

RB

The Final Blow
 

Why is that Mooron must constantly attack Suzanne?

Are there no depths to which Bob will not sink? Hiding behind Suzanne's
skirts is an act of such cowardice,

Hiding indicates that Suzanne did a poor job. In fact she did a GREAT job.
She had very little help from me.

RB

The Final Blow
 

would a ''disco or two'' show up on radar?

Only if it's on.

RB

The Final Blow
 

Bwaaaahahhahahahhahaaha!
No Donal, the cruising guide stated that.
It was a quote!!

Ya know, Ozzy...they can't even follow the most basic threads.
You've really ruined this for them. Also: I'd appreciate you leaving the Dark
Side after this. More fun for me to take em' down alone! Just because it's easy
doesn't make it right.


RB

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
There are very few shore lights at Port Jeff from the LIS. It wasn't
Miami for
crying out loud.

Skitch, there's a ferry service in Port Jeff and the shore lights are
BLINDING
as you approach. The damn ferry was showing a BRIGHT white light as well.
Looked like a damn refinery coming in and the Ferry was sleeping. There is
also
some kind of treatment plant to starboard as you enter showing a lot of
lights
along with the tugs that appeared to live there.


Oh Dear!

Oz, are you really going to carry on supporting this rubbish?


Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

yes, but when one is the biggest braggart & blow hard on a sailing NG, one
would expect otherwise, wouldn't one?

Is it warm in there?

Scotty


"The Captains Master" wrote ...
AFA Bubbles is concerned, as I've said before, erring on cautions side
when unsure is a good thing.

There is always good reason for caution entering an unknown port at
night....as you well know.....I suspect.

CM

The Final Blow
 

"The Captains Master" wrote in message
...

Conmen are everywhere, even in newsgroups.

You've been exposed.


Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

Hmmm. As I indicated earlier, we had charts (Chart Kit/BBA/LIS), used ICW our
Garmin GPS-Map 76. While the GPS map worked accurately, suzanne prefered the
detail afforded by the charts. We also have quite a few big charts in
addition
to the kit, but they're a bit ungainly.
I await your next lie, gentlemen! Imagine...it's come to this! I have all of
YOU lying now!

I'm not lying. I read that you had only a guidebook and if this is true it is
silly on your part. Also, I would venture that your earlier post about how
bright Port Jeff is is a bit of an exaggeration. Those plant lights that look
like the lights in Close Encounters are all red, bright, flashing and 100' feet
high. Anyone who could confuse them with buoy lights should be in a mental
ward and not a sailboat. You make out the ferry (which you can't even see
from the Sound) as if it were an aircraft carrier. I can see now that the
posting I missed has been an extended exchange of hyperbole.

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
Why is that Mooron must constantly attack Suzanne?

Are there no depths to which Bob will not sink? Hiding behind Suzanne's
skirts is an act of such cowardice,

Hiding indicates that Suzanne did a poor job. In fact she did a GREAT job.
She had very little help from me.

That certainly matches the picture of your pathetic little escapade that is
emerging.

Now, 'fess up, who else was aboard?


Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

"The Captains Master" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 01:23:35 +0100, "Donal"
wrote:
Surely, if you knew anything at all about navigation, then you would at
least do a bit of your own passage planning???? .... just so that you
could
help if needed???

Ummm what makes you think none was done?

Geeeze!! HE HAD NO IDEA of the time of HW .... AND he believed that the
entrance was difficult.



Regards


Donal
--

The Final Blow
 

"The Captains Master" wrote in message

| Ahhh but you fail to grasp the progress made by Bubbles in the last
| few years. Eventually is a possibility.

Not when impeded by terminal dementia and an irrational fear of the unknown.

CM

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| If you combine the above
| with Radar and GPS it becomes fairly obvious that with basic mathematical
| skills and some navigational understanding... a comprehensive picture of
| what is required to access the destination can be formulated in short
order
|
| Why is that Mooron must constantly attack Suzanne? She did a fine job with
no
| mistakes. Taking some extra time to be certain of an entry will be the MO
until
| she's gotten more time to practice.
| Mooron has NO point. None at all, I'm afraid...but he's sure hopping mad
about
| getting his ass kicked!

Just as I thought.... the lights from the buoys confused Bob... so he
blames his wife!

CM

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| Hiding indicates that Suzanne did a poor job. In fact she did a GREAT job.
| She had very little help from me.

After your repeated failings to answer anything related to navigation... I
suspect she would have wisely refused any input you might have to offer.

CM

The Final Blow
 

In article , The Captains
Master wrote:

[snip]

Entering Port Jeff is about as easy as it gets. Maybe next Bobadil (Oh that
name
is SO appropriate) will scan the placemat from a restaurant to substantiate
that he Port Jeff has giant lobsters that are bigger than a house.

BB

Jeez, and he'd never been there so he played safe at 2am on a dark
night.
Please tell me what's wrong with that?

Nothing actually; I would have been cautious too. That's appropriate
for the inexperienced, which I'm happy to admit to WRT small boats.
Bob's credibility problem comes from claiming to be an expert while
acting like a novice. The more he blusters, the more ovbious it is that
he doesn't know what he's doing and is too thick/conceited to admit it.

PDW

The Final Blow
 

Get that glass belly-button installed, let a little light shine in.

"Bob****" wrote

Also: I'd appreciate you leaving the Dark
Side after this.

The Final Blow
 

"Bobsprit" wrote in message

| Don't fret...I've clobbered these clowns with total abandon!

I've not fretted since the only thing clobbered here is your ability to
sail... let alone navigate.


| So far they've said:
|
| Ignore local cruising guides.
Not so.. just don't use them to replace your charts.. like you obviously
did.
| Don't take care before entering a strange port at night.
Certainly not.. but care and panic are a long ways apart.
| Flashing markers end any confusion for entering a port at night.
Flashing Markers??? Bwahahahahahahahahaaa.


| Mooron thinks my trip was spoiled by the 2nd pass at
| Port Jeff and ignoring bottom contours!

Not at all... I think it showed exactly what level of sailing expertise you
haven't achieved... and now your proclaimed several passes and half hour of
searching is down to 2 passes and a few minutes??? Do try to keep your
story straight... maybe that's why you don't keep a log?

CM

The Final Blow
 

I think what's really upsetting the Mooron and his sheep is that I'm
standing on your side and they have recognised the significance of
that. (leaving the door open for comment from the Jaffa rollers)

Even worse: Thom, who's a steadfast and stable sort not given to trolling, also
commented on my behalf.
Mooron and Billy Jane should have just retreated and sought new game, but
they've just dug themselves deeper and deeper.

RB

The Final Blow
 

Geeeze!! HE HAD NO IDEA of the time of HW

Not true. We knew exactly when the HW was.

RB

The Final Blow
 

so he
blames his wife!

Yes! Let's all "blame" Suzanne for doing a great job doing nav at night for the
1st time!
I hope to blame her again!

RB

The Final Blow
 

Now, 'fess up, who else was aboard?

Okay, I admit it! Ted Turner!

RB

The Final Blow
 

Finally another voice of reason and further information on Bob's Big
Adventure!

Well said Skitch!!

CM



"SkitchNYC" wrote in message

| I have that cruising guide. It is not just "LIS" but rather all of New
| England, and while venerable and charming and informative about shopping
in
| port, it is not very good for navigation. It has no chartlets in it and
| information often is inconsistent with reality. I am amazed that anyone
would
| set out for an unfamiliar port armed only with it and without proper
charts. A
| copy of Eldridge would also be wise to predict the current and tide not
only
| for that inlet, but also to take advantage of (or avoid) the currents
available
| along that entire trip.

The Final Blow
 

After your repeated failings to answer anything related to navigation...

Not only did I answer your questions, but you even commented that it was "fun"
once I had done so!
You are caught lying again!

RB

The Final Blow
 

I'm not lying. I read that you had only a guidebook

You "read" that I had only a guidebook? Oh, must be true then!
C'mon, Skitch. Work a bit harder. If I entered Port Jeff at 2:00 am with NO
charts that WOULD be MORE of an accomplishment.
But I'm afraid we used charts (sniffle) and a GPS (boo hoo), but no radar.

RB

The Final Blow
 

and now your proclaimed several passes and half hour of
searching is down to 2 passes and a few minutes??? Do try to keep your
story straight... maybe that's why you don't keep a log?

1/2 hour? Another lie from Mooron! It's getting pretty impressive!

RB