It finally hit me.
 

"DSK" wrote in message ...
In all, it's a different kind of fun than sailing, but still very enjoyable.



Thank you, Douggies - you summed it up in a nutshell.
"Different kind of FUN"!!!!

That short sentence is at the root of all the problems motor
boaters cause.

Why don't you power squadron putzes take your boating more
seriously? Maybe you wouldn't be such a danger to sailors if
you didn't consider something as serious as navigation to be
"FUN".

S.Simon

It finally hit me.
 

Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing argument that you're
now bragging about how much you motorsailed around the Bahamas!

Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is unable to power into a
chop, like any proper boat can.

Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible; even the catamaran is
a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop
and 20+ knots of wind and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1
knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions.

But now we know who to turn to when we have questions about powering.



Simple Simon wrote:
But, Jeff you idiot you, motorsailing is still sailing. If one can
shorten one's
time to a destination so as to arrive before dark this is a
legitimate use
of an engine. Unlike you, I am not so stupid as to take all sail down
and motor straight into it. I simply used the motor as means of
fetching
the island instead of beating back and forth until after dark which
is not
a good idea on the shallow Bahamas banks.

By the way, didn't you notice how the motor did NOT come out of
the water? Isn't that what you maintain - that an outboard is useless
in a steep chop?

Another argument lost by the power squadron.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Real sailors? Like the one that wrote:

"However, the wind ended up coming directly out of sixty degrees and
it piped up to about twenty knots. There was a pretty steep chop
developing and I ended up being able to make only thirty degrees.
Gave up beating into it when I came to the conclusion I would not
make it to Mangrove Cay. Decided to motor sail with main alone so I
could pinch close and pounded my way to the cay ..."



Oh No! There's a chop! Better fire up that outboard!

You certainly talk the talk Neal, but you sure as **** don't walk
the walk!


Simple Simon wrote:
If there is a 'nasty chop' there is wind. If there is wind
we real sailors don't bother with a motor. Sails work
just great. You should try it sometime.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop.

With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing
if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will
lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap.
Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters.

It finally hit me.
 

And, praytell otnmbrd, why would any self-respecting
motor sailer captain like Fulmoron or First Mate like
Lady Sailor want to back in open water?

S.Simon


"otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net...
Can be applied in a modified version. Tied up port side too, hold "fwd
after spring", quick kick ahead to swing stern out, then go astern, but
we were, or at least I was talking about an open water situation while
trying to back. ..... can also be used when going down a narrow slip,
where you need to stop and still end up heading in the same direction.

It finally hit me.
 

So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS.

Simple Simon wrote:
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ...

A true sailboat, like mine, has the prop mounted abaft the
rudder----------We are talking about a sailboat, with the Prop centered
on the keel in front of the rudder
-----A boat with an engine inside the hull is not a sailboat


OK, so give me a break. I should have said we are talking about
a "motor sailer" with prop centered . . ." Big deal. Try addressing
the point of the post and not some lame attempt at semantics. You
know damned well what I mean. Any so called sailboat with a big
diesel inside with transmission, shaft big propeller in an aperture
in front of the keel is really just a motor boat with sails. Calling it
even a motor sailer is being lenient.


Shall we continue to reply or would you rather continue this discussion
on your own, single handed, pig headed, opinionated in error as you live
G or should we let you work both sides of the discussion as we,truly,
cover Lady Sailor's problem of handling her (and Mike's) newly acquired
boat in reverse? It is no need for any of us to reply to you until you
figure out just what the hell you really want to say.


Then why are you bothering to reply is there is not point?
Is it because you are as dumb as Jeff and Shen44 and ontmbrd
when it comes to sailing a real sailboat?

S.Simon

It finally hit me.
 

Older but better ;-)


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Yes, Neal, so you say. And the engine on my first boat was run about dozen times in the
five years I had her - I never used more than a gallon a year. But I guess we've both
gotten a bit older, eh?

It finally hit me.
 

"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ...
So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS.


A Cabo Rico 38' is, indeed, a motor boat with sails unless someone
had one commissioned without motor. Any sailboat that has a built in
motor with more than one horsepower for each meter of length is a
motorsailer at best.

What's a Cabo Rico 38 have? About 40-50 horsepower? To be
a sailboat it would have to have no more than 12 horsepower.

S.Simon

It finally hit me.
 

Are you claiming that your boat would fall apart if properly powered? Yes, I suppose it
would.

You might call my boat a "motorsailor" but it only has twin 18 hp engines, not exactly
overpowered.

So how small is your engine, that its unable to push the boat in all conditions?

BTW, the current Lats & Atts has a review of the PDQ MV 34 "trawler." It comes with twin
75s, or twin 100 diesels.



Simple Simon wrote:
And that's one of the main differences between a real sailboat
and a motorsailer like you operate (notice I was careful not
to say 'sail') - sailboats are not designed to bang straight into
the wind. They cannot do it under sail and they cannot do it
under motor power unless they have such large motors that
they are NO LONGER to be considered sailboats. Calling
them motorsailers is a kindness they really don't deserve.

They are just motorboats with sails.

Go ahead and brag all you want how your motorboat can
go straight into whatever chop and seas you care to mention.
The bigger the better because all it proves is that you have
a motorboat with sails. Me, I prefer a sailboat with a small
auxiliary motor that can be and is lifted clear of the water when
not needed.

The more you talk the more you reveal your true personality.
You are a dyed-in-the-wool motorboater and proud of it.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing
argument that you're now bragging about how much you motorsailed
around the Bahamas!

Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is
unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can.

Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible;
even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have
to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind
and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1
knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions.

It finally hit me.
 

Hey Dopey,

It was a question about future action. You replied but your reply didn't
answer the question.

Why did you reply? Again I ask you, is it necessary to reply to your
dumb posts or do you get enough satisfaction working both side of the
question?

It isn't necessary for us to reply. You are making a big enough ass by
yourself. When you say your boat is a true sailboat and in the same post
give the fuel (Gas) volume used, you tender the question of the make up
of your boat. Is it a sailboat or a half/ass motorsailer? If you think
it may to be a leading question, you are correct. Define your boat to us
again and why so?

Don't post until you have checked all the cheap **** you've said about
other people's boats and how they have been used. I for one will be
using your previous BS remarks to evaluate any answer.

Have at it, Simple. It may be better if you go silent. BS is hard to
swallow,

AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!"

The question; Define your boat's Type?

Ole Thom

It finally hit me.
 

My little Honda is 9.9 HP but I don't run it much over half
throttle so I only use about six or so of the HP in very light
or no wind conditions. It will go close to hull speed at a little
over half throttle. I have tried it with sails down and powering
straight into a brisk wind of about 30 knots on the shallow
banks in the Bahamas and had it almost wide open but it
would only push the boat along at four knots. It's better to
motorsail with the main up and fall off about 20 degrees to
the wind and go about six or seven knots.

38 HP for a 34 foot sailboat is a bit much.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ...
Are you claiming that your boat would fall apart if properly powered? Yes, I suppose it
would.

You might call my boat a "motorsailor" but it only has twin 18 hp engines, not exactly
overpowered.

So how small is your engine, that its unable to push the boat in all conditions?

BTW, the current Lats & Atts has a review of the PDQ MV 34 "trawler." It comes with twin
75s, or twin 100 diesels.



Simple Simon wrote:
And that's one of the main differences between a real sailboat
and a motorsailer like you operate (notice I was careful not
to say 'sail') - sailboats are not designed to bang straight into
the wind. They cannot do it under sail and they cannot do it
under motor power unless they have such large motors that
they are NO LONGER to be considered sailboats. Calling
them motorsailers is a kindness they really don't deserve.

They are just motorboats with sails.

Go ahead and brag all you want how your motorboat can
go straight into whatever chop and seas you care to mention.
The bigger the better because all it proves is that you have
a motorboat with sails. Me, I prefer a sailboat with a small
auxiliary motor that can be and is lifted clear of the water when
not needed.

The more you talk the more you reveal your true personality.
You are a dyed-in-the-wool motorboater and proud of it.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing
argument that you're now bragging about how much you motorsailed
around the Bahamas!

Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is
unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can.

Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible;
even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have
to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind
and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1
knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions.

It finally hit me.
 

I can play your game too - my engines are rated at 18 at 3600 rpm, but I normally run at
2700 where they are rated at 8 hp at the prop. So I really have a total of 16 hp for a 36
foot boat, which actually has the volume of a 45.

But now you're saying that your boat can power into a chop - you just prefer to bear off a
bit and carry an oversheeted main to gain some VMG and get a steadier ride. So I guess
when the stupidity of your original claim was pointed out you decided that maybe my
approach is more sensible. I knew you'd see it my way.


Simple Simon wrote:
My little Honda is 9.9 HP but I don't run it much over half
throttle so I only use about six or so of the HP in very light
or no wind conditions. It will go close to hull speed at a little
over half throttle. I have tried it with sails down and powering
straight into a brisk wind of about 30 knots on the shallow
banks in the Bahamas and had it almost wide open but it
would only push the boat along at four knots. It's better to
motorsail with the main up and fall off about 20 degrees to
the wind and go about six or seven knots.

38 HP for a 34 foot sailboat is a bit much.


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Are you claiming that your boat would fall apart if properly
powered? Yes, I suppose it would.

You might call my boat a "motorsailor" but it only has twin 18 hp
engines, not exactly overpowered.

So how small is your engine, that its unable to push the boat in all
conditions?

BTW, the current Lats & Atts has a review of the PDQ MV 34
"trawler." It comes with twin 75s, or twin 100 diesels.



Simple Simon wrote:
And that's one of the main differences between a real sailboat
and a motorsailer like you operate (notice I was careful not
to say 'sail') - sailboats are not designed to bang straight into
the wind. They cannot do it under sail and they cannot do it
under motor power unless they have such large motors that
they are NO LONGER to be considered sailboats. Calling
them motorsailers is a kindness they really don't deserve.

They are just motorboats with sails.

Go ahead and brag all you want how your motorboat can
go straight into whatever chop and seas you care to mention.
The bigger the better because all it proves is that you have
a motorboat with sails. Me, I prefer a sailboat with a small
auxiliary motor that can be and is lifted clear of the water when
not needed.

The more you talk the more you reveal your true personality.
You are a dyed-in-the-wool motorboater and proud of it.

S.Simon


"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message
...
Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a
loosing argument that you're now bragging about how much you
motorsailed around the Bahamas!

Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is
unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can.

Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible;
even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have
to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind
and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1
knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions.