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It finally hit me.
Yes, boy have I been dumb! But, I figured it out . . .
Lady Sailor is fat because she's pregnant. As soon as Schoonertrash found out, like a good sailor, he skipped town because he knew he wasn't even IN TOWN when the Lady became pregnant. So, Lady Sailor cabbaged onto Fulmoron and got him drunk and married so her little one (*******) would have a secure home. Mike, I sure hope you have lots of money to share. Trash - you are a real sailor! Bwwwahahahahahahhahahahaha! |
It finally hit me.
Yes, boy have I been dumb!
Have been. Will be. Always. RB |
It finally hit me.
It's been 33 years since I had my last baby and I have no intention of
walking down that road at this stage of the game. Now, stop obsessing about my love life and tell me how we can make our boat back up straigt. Lady B. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Yes, boy have I been dumb! But, I figured it out . . . Lady Sailor is fat because she's pregnant. As soon as Schoonertrash found out, like a good sailor, he skipped town because he knew he wasn't even IN TOWN when the Lady became pregnant. So, Lady Sailor cabbaged onto Fulmoron and got him drunk and married so her little one (*******) would have a secure home. Mike, I sure hope you have lots of money to share. Trash - you are a real sailor! Bwwwahahahahahahhahahahaha! |
It finally hit me.
Counter-rotating props should do it.
"Lady Sailor" wrote in message ... It's been 33 years since I had my last baby and I have no intention of walking down that road at this stage of the game. Now, stop obsessing about my love life and tell me how we can make our boat back up straigt. Lady B. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Yes, boy have I been dumb! But, I figured it out . . . Lady Sailor is fat because she's pregnant. As soon as Schoonertrash found out, like a good sailor, he skipped town because he knew he wasn't even IN TOWN when the Lady became pregnant. So, Lady Sailor cabbaged onto Fulmoron and got him drunk and married so her little one (*******) would have a secure home. Mike, I sure hope you have lots of money to share. Trash - you are a real sailor! Bwwwahahahahahahhahahahaha! |
It finally hit me.
Counter-rotating props should do it.
....and bow thrusters.... --=20 katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
It finally hit me.
alt.sailing.asa has never been the same since Thu, 14 Aug 2003
17:34:57 -0400, when katysails wrote: Counter-rotating props should do it. ...and bow thrusters.... Read any Freud? -- PJR :-) mhm34x8 Majority shareholder in Tom Bishop[tm] Kookery Inc. Tom Bishop[tm] is available for hire to accredited kookologists and trolls at reasonable rates. Get Tom Bishop[tm] to make *your* party go with a thud! |
It finally hit me.
If you've got a real nasty prop walk, you may never be able to back
straight. Some things to try: 1. If you are going to be backing any distance, keep your hands off the throttle, just use enough "astern" to get her moving in that direction, with a bit of right rudder (try varying angles). Figure she will not go perfectly straight, but may travel in a "sine wave". Just use enough "astern" to keep her moving astern. 2. Looking at your rudder, in the pictures, it's no wonder, that once you got her going to stbd, especially if you had a lot of right rudder on, she would want to keep going .... that rudder becomes like a big "skeg" and will pull her over ..... generally means you have too much sternway on. otn Lady Sailor wrote: It's been 33 years since I had my last baby and I have no intention of walking down that road at this stage of the game. Now, stop obsessing about my love life and tell me how we can make our boat back up straigt. Lady B. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Yes, boy have I been dumb! But, I figured it out . . . Lady Sailor is fat because she's pregnant. As soon as Schoonertrash found out, like a good sailor, he skipped town because he knew he wasn't even IN TOWN when the Lady became pregnant. So, Lady Sailor cabbaged onto Fulmoron and got him drunk and married so her little one (*******) would have a secure home. Mike, I sure hope you have lots of money to share. Trash - you are a real sailor! Bwwwahahahahahahhahahahaha! |
It finally hit me.
I've found the opposite to be true. To counter prop walk - when forward motion
has stopped put the boat in reverse and rev the hell out of the motor to get it moving backwards past the prop walk speed then immediatly back off the throttle and keep enough revs to back the boat straight to where ever you want to go. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
It finally hit me.
In truth, there is no "prop walk" speed ..... it is always there. What
you describe is getting enough sternway on that the larger rudder on your sailboat becomes, somewhat, effective. Don't get me wrong, this does work, but it has limitations, in that you may have more way on than you want, and steering astern like this becomes very sensitive, where, if you should use too much wheel, the boat may, as was described, take off in that direction and be hard to correct. By limiting the "asterns" and keeping the sternway low, you may not go as straight as you'd like, but you have more time and can more easily correct, the errors. On my "Contessa", this worked well .... and in fact if I got too much sternway on she'd let me know, as it would take two men and a boy to hold the rudder straight. As in most cases, what works for one may not work for another, but I generally find I can make slow and easy work more often, for me. otn SAIL LOCO wrote: I've found the opposite to be true. To counter prop walk - when forward motion has stopped put the boat in reverse and rev the hell out of the motor to get it moving backwards past the prop walk speed then immediatly back off the throttle and keep enough revs to back the boat straight to where ever you want to go. S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster" Trains are a winter sport |
It finally hit me.
Barb,
otn is on the right track. Some vessels are real pigs in reverse. I have problems when I have the Folding prop because I have to hit high RPM to get the blades to open. When I back out of the Slip, I hold the stern in place with the stern line until I start to make sternway then I throtle back. Remember You have a neutral gear. Use it to correct sternwalk, once you get some way. Use reverse in short pulses and correct in neutral allowing for the next stern walk under power. KEEP RPM LOW, correct in neutal, curse that cut away stern and prop and keep trying Ole Thom |
It finally hit me.
"Simple Simon" wrote in
: Counter-rotating props should do it. Getting a new beanie? Bertie "Lady Sailor" wrote in message ... It's been 33 years since I had my last baby and I have no intention of walking down that road at this stage of the game. Now, stop obsessing about my love life and tell me how we can make our boat back up straigt. Lady B. "Simple Simon" wrote in message ... Yes, boy have I been dumb! But, I figured it out . . . Lady Sailor is fat because she's pregnant. As soon as Schoonertrash found out, like a good sailor, he skipped town because he knew he wasn't even IN TOWN when the Lady became pregnant. So, Lady Sailor cabbaged onto Fulmoron and got him drunk and married so her little one (*******) would have a secure home. Mike, I sure hope you have lots of money to share. Trash - you are a real sailor! Bwwwahahahahahahhahahahaha! |
It finally hit me.
"katysails" wrote in news:bhgv68$ln0k$1@ID-
178897.news.uni-berlin.de: Counter-rotating props should do it. ...and bow thrusters.... Good lord. bertie |
It finally hit me.
A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop.
With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap. Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters. Simple Simon wrote: Otnbrd is wrong and stupid as usual. He's a motor boater so what else do you expect? A real sailboat like mine has the propeller abaft the rudder and the rudder swings through 360 degrees. It reverse my yacht is just as steerable as it is in forward because in reverse the prop wash involves the rudder directly. Lady Sailor is stuck with a boat that will be difficult to steer in reverse and unless she goes with counter-rotating props there is NOTHING that can be done about it. S.Simon. "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Barb, otn is on the right track. Some vessels are real pigs in reverse. I have problems when I have the Folding prop because I have to hit high RPM to get the blades to open. When I back out of the Slip, I hold the stern in place with the stern line until I start to make sternway then I throtle back. Remember You have a neutral gear. Use it to correct sternwalk, once you get some way. Use reverse in short pulses and correct in neutral allowing for the next stern walk under power. KEEP RPM LOW, correct in neutal, curse that cut away stern and prop and keep trying Ole Thom |
It finally hit me.
I use a transom hung outboard in nasty chop. The hobbyhorsing and
the prop lifting only occurs if one is stupid enough to be relying on the motor and attempting to drive straight into the chop. If the motor is being used sanely, as an "iron jib" assist to some sail area, the boat is actually sailing, at an angle to the chop, and heeled with the motion damped. Are you recommending relying on your motor to drive you straight into a nasty chop to get you off a lee shore? -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Learn what lies below the waves of cyberspace! http://www.internetopera.netfirms.com Jeff Morris wrote: A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop. With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap. Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters. Simple Simon wrote: Otnbrd is wrong and stupid as usual. He's a motor boater so what else do you expect? A real sailboat like mine has the propeller abaft the rudder and the rudder swings through 360 degrees. It reverse my yacht is just as steerable as it is in forward because in reverse the prop wash involves the rudder directly. Lady Sailor is stuck with a boat that will be difficult to steer in reverse and unless she goes with counter-rotating props there is NOTHING that can be done about it. S.Simon. "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Barb, otn is on the right track. Some vessels are real pigs in reverse. I have problems when I have the Folding prop because I have to hit high RPM to get the blades to open. When I back out of the Slip, I hold the stern in place with the stern line until I start to make sternway then I throtle back. Remember You have a neutral gear. Use it to correct sternwalk, once you get some way. Use reverse in short pulses and correct in neutral allowing for the next stern walk under power. KEEP RPM LOW, correct in neutal, curse that cut away stern and prop and keep trying Ole Thom |
It finally hit me.
Yes, FT, when I say "totally useless" you should interpret that as "I recommend it."
The one boat I sailed often that had a transom hung outboard suffered from this problem. It was a very heavy 26' wooden boat built in the 30's (or earlier) along the lines of a Stone Horse. On one of my first overnights, I was awakened at 3AM by the owner - our secure anchorage had turned into a very nasty lee shore - about 50 feet to the rocks. We started the outboard but it was lifting out on every bounce. We hauled the anchor and worked off under sail. Two important lessons learned - don't rely on a transom hung outboard because it might not work when you really want it; but more importantly, the skills my buddy & I had acquired from years of dinghy sailing are invaluable when you have only one chance to do a clean tack in the dark! However, in a more general sense, I would say yes, I do expect a proper engine to be able to push a boat out of harm's way when needed. There may be better strategies in some situations, but to imply that an engine can't be expected to take a boat straight into a chop is a very limited point of view. Some people chose a minimal engine, which is OK, but its good that you appreciate the limitations inherent in such a setup. Neal claims that a "proper sailboat" has a transom hung outboard. This may be true, but a "proper auxiliary sailboat" has an engine that can be relied on to handle the worst situations. Flying Tadpole wrote: I use a transom hung outboard in nasty chop. The hobbyhorsing and the prop lifting only occurs if one is stupid enough to be relying on the motor and attempting to drive straight into the chop. If the motor is being used sanely, as an "iron jib" assist to some sail area, the boat is actually sailing, at an angle to the chop, and heeled with the motion damped. Are you recommending relying on your motor to drive you straight into a nasty chop to get you off a lee shore? Jeff Morris wrote: A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop. With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap. Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters. Simple Simon wrote: Otnbrd is wrong and stupid as usual. He's a motor boater so what else do you expect? A real sailboat like mine has the propeller abaft the rudder and the rudder swings through 360 degrees. It reverse my yacht is just as steerable as it is in forward because in reverse the prop wash involves the rudder directly. Lady Sailor is stuck with a boat that will be difficult to steer in reverse and unless she goes with counter-rotating props there is NOTHING that can be done about it. S.Simon. "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Barb, otn is on the right track. Some vessels are real pigs in reverse. I have problems when I have the Folding prop because I have to hit high RPM to get the blades to open. When I back out of the Slip, I hold the stern in place with the stern line until I start to make sternway then I throtle back. Remember You have a neutral gear. Use it to correct sternwalk, once you get some way. Use reverse in short pulses and correct in neutral allowing for the next stern walk under power. KEEP RPM LOW, correct in neutal, curse that cut away stern and prop and keep trying Ole Thom |
It finally hit me.
|
It finally hit me.
Neal,
Just what the Hell are you talking about? Your boat doesn't even have a fixed prop. Your vessel doesn't even have a fixed motor! Your boat isn't even a true Aux. On a true Aux, with the Prop mounted "Abaft the Rudder" as in a off set shaft, Reverse is a bloody Nightmare. Get a true Auxiliary with a decent fixed engine ad learn what the hell we are talking about. A sailboat with a decent mounted inboard engine and a proper designed sailing hull can have problems in reverse. A garbage scow can go forward or reverse equally well but it sails lousy |
It finally hit me.
Neal,
While I'm talking about your mental outlook on problems, get your head in tune to reality. Things that really have meaning in life aren't concerned with appearances. Happiness; is that a thin thing or shout? What does LOVE look like? Please tell me what contentment looks like? Pride, knowledge, accomplishment, satisfaction, joy, fear, failure, hope and hopelessness; are any of these things have a thin or a stout appearance? In one of your lonely moments give some thought to these things and see, in your Opinionated Mind if you can give a visual description of these things Let us, "DRINK TO THAT!" Your Obese, 77 year old Buddy, Thom |
It finally hit me.
If there is a 'nasty chop' there is wind. If there is wind
we real sailors don't bother with a motor. Sails work just great. You should try it sometime. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop. With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap. Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters. |
It finally hit me.
"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Neal claims that a "proper sailboat" has a transom hung outboard. This may be true, but a "proper auxiliary sailboat" has an engine that can be relied on to handle the worst situations. Your motorboat mentality is showing again. Pathetic, man, pathetic! S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
There are a whole bunch of different factors involved with each type
boat, operator, and conditions (such as the folding prop issue) that will have to be factored in, which makes trying to recommend a positive solution to any one boat, difficult, in this medium. One reason I don't like using too much power/speed astern is the strain on steering gear ( be it tiller or pedestal) when trying to use the rudder. Something else to think about, which I frequently use (in the past on sail and nowadays on power). If I have a right hand prop and want to back in a particular direction, I will frequently start with a kick ahead and hard left rudder to get the boat swinging to port, then midships the rudder and start astern (timing is everything) and let the prop walk stop the port hand swing of the bow while getting up sternway so that the rudder can take over when I stop the engine so that I'm going in the direction I want (this can be repeated). Also, play close attention to the wind ..... a high percentage of boats want to back into the wind (and current) and will sometimes do this over prop walk, ....something else you can use to your advantage. otn DSK wrote: otnmbrd wrote: In truth, there is no "prop walk" speed ..... it is always there. What you describe is getting enough sternway on that the larger rudder on your sailboat becomes, somewhat, effective. Agreed. In my experience, revving exaggerates prop walk, but a boat with a small prop and a large rudder (such as most sailboats) this may be the best way to get the boat backing the way you want. Out tugboat has the opposite, big prop and relatively small rudder. It takes a lot of speed astern to get steerage, and it makes me nervous to go rushing backwards. So I usually leave it at idle in reverse to gather sternway and then steer using bursts of forward against the rudder. To back into our slip, we have to make a 90 degree turn in the opposite direction that prop walk in astern wants to pull us. I put the helm hard over & leave it, and idle in reverse, occasionally switching to forward and revving slightly. It's taken some practice but we can do it pretty smoothly now (most of the time). Some folks with heavy single prop boats just give up and get a bow thruster. In fact, in many trawler magazines you'll see claims that a bow thruster is necessary. So far I haven't found it to be so, but I grant that there are some conditions where some maneuvers simply can't work. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
It finally hit me.
Loser! Fat people look stupid and gross. They look stupid because they are too stupid to lose weight which is proven to harm them and decrease their quality of life. They demonstrate they have no pride in their health and abuse what God gave them. Fat people get in the way of normal people. They ruin the view. They got fat because they ate more calories than they expended.This means they are either lazy or gluttons or a combination of both. Fat people have no redeeming qualities. Fat people look gross because they ARE gross. Obesity is not a disease; it is a failing of character. There is no excuse for it. To make a body three or four times the size it is supposed to be is to make a mockery out of being a human being. It shows everyone else a defective body with a defective mind within the blubber. All those other things you talk about giving an appearance to sounds like you have been going to some wacko, liberal, tree-hugging class or something. The bottom line is appearances matter. People don't like ugly things. Fat people are ugly things - stupid, ugly things. S.Simon "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... Neal, While I'm talking about your mental outlook on problems, get your head in tune to reality. Things that really have meaning in life aren't concerned with appearances. Happiness; is that a thin thing or shout? What does LOVE look like? Please tell me what contentment looks like? Pride, knowledge, accomplishment, satisfaction, joy, fear, failure, hope and hopelessness; are any of these things have a thin or a stout appearance? In one of your lonely moments give some thought to these things and see, in your Opinionated Mind if you can give a visual description of these things Let us, "DRINK TO THAT!" Your Obese, 77 year old Buddy, Thom |
It finally hit me.
Hey, stupid, we're talking sailboats here - not your beloved
motor boat. Comments interspersed. "otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net... There are a whole bunch of different factors involved with each type boat, operator, and conditions (such as the folding prop issue) that will have to be factored in, which makes trying to recommend a positive solution to any one boat, difficult, in this medium. Wrong. We are only talking about a sailboat here with one propeller centered at the back of the keel forward of the rudder. Have you ever even seen such a thing? No? I thought so. One reason I don't like using too much power/speed astern is the strain on steering gear ( be it tiller or pedestal) when trying to use the rudder. Sailboats don't have big, powerful motors like the motor boats you are used to. Their auxilliary motors won't cause damage to the rudder or steering gear when reversing. Something else to think about, which I frequently use (in the past on sail and nowadays on power). If I have a right hand prop and want to back in a particular direction, I will frequently start with a kick ahead and hard left rudder to get the boat swinging to port, then midships the rudder and start astern (timing is everything) and let the prop walk stop the port hand swing of the bow while getting up sternway so that the rudder can take over when I stop the engine so that I'm going in the direction I want (this can be repeated). Yeah right. Try backing out of a slip that way. You will hit one side then the other, then back. What an idiot! Also, you will be going too fast and be out of control. Go back to rec.boats and STAY there. S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
So, Simple,
Would you be so kind, as to explain just how a true (I as you describe) sailboat goes in reverse, against the wind, in a narrow seaway, without tacking room? While you're at it, explain how you get off a lee shore with the tide aganst you, without tacking room? ALSO, if you're so damn happy sailing why in the HELL do you have that MONSTROSITY clamped to your stern? OT |
It finally hit me.
Simple Simon wrote:
"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message Neal claims that a "proper sailboat" has a transom hung outboard. This may be true, but a "proper auxiliary sailboat" has an engine that can be relied on to handle the worst situations. Your motorboat mentality is showing again. Pathetic, man, pathetic! Yes Neal, but you're the one who motors wherever you go. And on top of that, you tow a motorboat for a dinghy! |
It finally hit me.
bject: It finally hit me.
From: "Simple Simon" Date: 08/15/2003 10:42 Pacific Standard Hey, stupid, we're talking sailboats here - not your beloved motor boat. Comments interspersed. Hey stupid, put a motor in any boat, connect it to a shaft and propellor, start it up, put it in gear and we have a motor boat.....egpart of the rules test you flunked. One reason I don't like using too much power/speed astern is the strain on steering gear ( be it tiller or pedestal) when trying to use the rudder. Sailboats don't have big, powerful motors like the motor boats you are used to. Their auxilliary motors won't cause damage to the rudder or steering gear when reversing. Your inexperience, is showing Something else to think about, which I frequently use (in the past on sail and nowadays on power). If I have a right hand prop and want to back in a particular direction, I will frequently start with a kick ahead and hard left rudder to get the boat swinging to port, then midships the rudder and start astern (timing is everything) and let the prop walk stop the port hand swing of the bow while getting up sternway so that the rudder can take over when I stop the engine so that I'm going in the direction I want (this can be repeated). Yeah right. Try backing out of a slip that way. You will hit one side then the other, then back. What an idiot! Also, you will be going too fast and be out of control. Only an idiot such as yourself would think to apply this to a "slip" situation ..... inexperience? or lack of common sense? Shen |
It finally hit me.
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... So, Simple, Would you be so kind, as to explain just how a true (I as you describe) sailboat goes in reverse, against the wind, in a narrow seaway, without tacking room? Why would one attempt to go in reverse when one can go forward? Are you daft, man? In case you and Jeff don't realize it, winds have a tendency to change over a period of time. If one cannot sail out of a narrow channel or seaway one can wait until the wind favors sailing. One does not need a motor, ever, when there is wind enough to sail. One only needs a motor when there is NO wind or so little wind that sailing in not possible or practical (such as when there is an adverse current). While you're at it, explain how you get off a lee shore with the tide aganst you, without tacking room? One doesn't put oneself in that position to begin with. But, if for some dumb reason, which you and Jeff seem to have in abundance, one finds oneself caught on a lee shore with not a chance of sailing off then one relies on one's anchors until the conditions change. ALSO, if you're so damn happy sailing why in the HELL do you have that MONSTROSITY clamped to your stern? Like I explained the little 9.9 horse Honda engine is a convenience for when there is no wind or too little wind for sailing. Those conditions NEVER cause an outboard engine to come out of the water like you or that idiot Jeff or Otnmbrd tried to claim. The argument that an outboard motor is of no value in a sailboat is just totally wrong and proves that any sailor who makes such a claim does not know how to sail or keep himself out of dangerous situations. On the contrary, people like you and that fool Jeff willingly motor into situations where, if and when their engines fail, their well-being and that of their vessel is in jeopardy. I hope this helps. S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
But, Jeff you idiot you, motorsailing is still sailing. If one can shorten one's
time to a destination so as to arrive before dark this is a legitimate use of an engine. Unlike you, I am not so stupid as to take all sail down and motor straight into it. I simply used the motor as means of fetching the island instead of beating back and forth until after dark which is not a good idea on the shallow Bahamas banks. By the way, didn't you notice how the motor did NOT come out of the water? Isn't that what you maintain - that an outboard is useless in a steep chop? Another argument lost by the power squadron. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Real sailors? Like the one that wrote: "However, the wind ended up coming directly out of sixty degrees and it piped up to about twenty knots. There was a pretty steep chop developing and I ended up being able to make only thirty degrees. Gave up beating into it when I came to the conclusion I would not make it to Mangrove Cay. Decided to motor sail with main alone so I could pinch close and pounded my way to the cay ..." Oh No! There's a chop! Better fire up that outboard! You certainly talk the talk Neal, but you sure as **** don't walk the walk! Simple Simon wrote: If there is a 'nasty chop' there is wind. If there is wind we real sailors don't bother with a motor. Sails work just great. You should try it sometime. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop. With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap. Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters. |
It finally hit me.
I motor wherever I go. Ha ha hahh ahahahahahahha!
Did I mention to you about the time I sailed to the Bahamas prior to this last trip while the winds were much more favorable? I sailed over to the Abacos, then down to George Town in the Exumas, then out to Rum Cay and around San Salvador, then to Long Island, then back up the Exumas to the Berries then over to Bimini and back to Cape Florida. I took ten gallons of gasoline with men and had five gallons left when I got back to Biscayne Bay. Did not buy, steal or borrow a drop while in the Bahamas. Yes sir, that's motoring all the time. Another loss for the power squadron. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Simple Simon wrote: "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message Neal claims that a "proper sailboat" has a transom hung outboard. This may be true, but a "proper auxiliary sailboat" has an engine that can be relied on to handle the worst situations. Your motorboat mentality is showing again. Pathetic, man, pathetic! Yes Neal, but you're the one who motors wherever you go. And on top of that, you tow a motorboat for a dinghy! |
It finally hit me.
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... A true sailboat, like mine, has the prop mounted abaft the rudder----------We are talking about a sailboat, with the Prop centered on the keel in front of the rudder -----A boat with an engine inside the hull is not a sailboat OK, so give me a break. I should have said we are talking about a "motor sailer" with prop centered . . ." Big deal. Try addressing the point of the post and not some lame attempt at semantics. You know damned well what I mean. Any so called sailboat with a big diesel inside with transmission, shaft big propeller in an aperture in front of the keel is really just a motor boat with sails. Calling it even a motor sailer is being lenient. Shall we continue to reply or would you rather continue this discussion on your own, single handed, pig headed, opinionated in error as you live G or should we let you work both sides of the discussion as we,truly, cover Lady Sailor's problem of handling her (and Mike's) newly acquired boat in reverse? It is no need for any of us to reply to you until you figure out just what the hell you really want to say. Then why are you bothering to reply is there is not point? Is it because you are as dumb as Jeff and Shen44 and ontmbrd when it comes to sailing a real sailboat? S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
"DSK" wrote in message ... In all, it's a different kind of fun than sailing, but still very enjoyable. Thank you, Douggies - you summed it up in a nutshell. "Different kind of FUN"!!!! That short sentence is at the root of all the problems motor boaters cause. Why don't you power squadron putzes take your boating more seriously? Maybe you wouldn't be such a danger to sailors if you didn't consider something as serious as navigation to be "FUN". S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing argument that you're
now bragging about how much you motorsailed around the Bahamas! Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can. Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible; even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1 knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions. But now we know who to turn to when we have questions about powering. Simple Simon wrote: But, Jeff you idiot you, motorsailing is still sailing. If one can shorten one's time to a destination so as to arrive before dark this is a legitimate use of an engine. Unlike you, I am not so stupid as to take all sail down and motor straight into it. I simply used the motor as means of fetching the island instead of beating back and forth until after dark which is not a good idea on the shallow Bahamas banks. By the way, didn't you notice how the motor did NOT come out of the water? Isn't that what you maintain - that an outboard is useless in a steep chop? Another argument lost by the power squadron. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Real sailors? Like the one that wrote: "However, the wind ended up coming directly out of sixty degrees and it piped up to about twenty knots. There was a pretty steep chop developing and I ended up being able to make only thirty degrees. Gave up beating into it when I came to the conclusion I would not make it to Mangrove Cay. Decided to motor sail with main alone so I could pinch close and pounded my way to the cay ..." Oh No! There's a chop! Better fire up that outboard! You certainly talk the talk Neal, but you sure as **** don't walk the walk! Simple Simon wrote: If there is a 'nasty chop' there is wind. If there is wind we real sailors don't bother with a motor. Sails work just great. You should try it sometime. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... A transome hung outboard becomes totally useless in a nasty chop. With the Banana Boat loaded for cuising, she'll start hobby-horsing if a fly lands on the bow. The propeller on that outboard will lift out on every bounce, turning a lee shore into a death trap. Neal is wise not to leave his sheltered waters. |
It finally hit me.
And, praytell otnmbrd, why would any self-respecting
motor sailer captain like Fulmoron or First Mate like Lady Sailor want to back in open water? S.Simon "otnmbrd" wrote in message ink.net... Can be applied in a modified version. Tied up port side too, hold "fwd after spring", quick kick ahead to swing stern out, then go astern, but we were, or at least I was talking about an open water situation while trying to back. ..... can also be used when going down a narrow slip, where you need to stop and still end up heading in the same direction. |
It finally hit me.
So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS.
Simple Simon wrote: "Thom Stewart" wrote in message ... A true sailboat, like mine, has the prop mounted abaft the rudder----------We are talking about a sailboat, with the Prop centered on the keel in front of the rudder -----A boat with an engine inside the hull is not a sailboat OK, so give me a break. I should have said we are talking about a "motor sailer" with prop centered . . ." Big deal. Try addressing the point of the post and not some lame attempt at semantics. You know damned well what I mean. Any so called sailboat with a big diesel inside with transmission, shaft big propeller in an aperture in front of the keel is really just a motor boat with sails. Calling it even a motor sailer is being lenient. Shall we continue to reply or would you rather continue this discussion on your own, single handed, pig headed, opinionated in error as you live G or should we let you work both sides of the discussion as we,truly, cover Lady Sailor's problem of handling her (and Mike's) newly acquired boat in reverse? It is no need for any of us to reply to you until you figure out just what the hell you really want to say. Then why are you bothering to reply is there is not point? Is it because you are as dumb as Jeff and Shen44 and ontmbrd when it comes to sailing a real sailboat? S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
Older but better ;-)
"Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Yes, Neal, so you say. And the engine on my first boat was run about dozen times in the five years I had her - I never used more than a gallon a year. But I guess we've both gotten a bit older, eh? |
It finally hit me.
"Kelton Joyner" wrote in message ... So, a 38' Cabo Rico is not a sailboat? BS. A Cabo Rico 38' is, indeed, a motor boat with sails unless someone had one commissioned without motor. Any sailboat that has a built in motor with more than one horsepower for each meter of length is a motorsailer at best. What's a Cabo Rico 38 have? About 40-50 horsepower? To be a sailboat it would have to have no more than 12 horsepower. S.Simon |
It finally hit me.
Are you claiming that your boat would fall apart if properly powered? Yes, I suppose it
would. You might call my boat a "motorsailor" but it only has twin 18 hp engines, not exactly overpowered. So how small is your engine, that its unable to push the boat in all conditions? BTW, the current Lats & Atts has a review of the PDQ MV 34 "trawler." It comes with twin 75s, or twin 100 diesels. Simple Simon wrote: And that's one of the main differences between a real sailboat and a motorsailer like you operate (notice I was careful not to say 'sail') - sailboats are not designed to bang straight into the wind. They cannot do it under sail and they cannot do it under motor power unless they have such large motors that they are NO LONGER to be considered sailboats. Calling them motorsailers is a kindness they really don't deserve. They are just motorboats with sails. Go ahead and brag all you want how your motorboat can go straight into whatever chop and seas you care to mention. The bigger the better because all it proves is that you have a motorboat with sails. Me, I prefer a sailboat with a small auxiliary motor that can be and is lifted clear of the water when not needed. The more you talk the more you reveal your true personality. You are a dyed-in-the-wool motorboater and proud of it. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing argument that you're now bragging about how much you motorsailed around the Bahamas! Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can. Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible; even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1 knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions. |
It finally hit me.
Hey Dopey,
It was a question about future action. You replied but your reply didn't answer the question. Why did you reply? Again I ask you, is it necessary to reply to your dumb posts or do you get enough satisfaction working both side of the question? It isn't necessary for us to reply. You are making a big enough ass by yourself. When you say your boat is a true sailboat and in the same post give the fuel (Gas) volume used, you tender the question of the make up of your boat. Is it a sailboat or a half/ass motorsailer? If you think it may to be a leading question, you are correct. Define your boat to us again and why so? Don't post until you have checked all the cheap **** you've said about other people's boats and how they have been used. I for one will be using your previous BS remarks to evaluate any answer. Have at it, Simple. It may be better if you go silent. BS is hard to swallow, AND: "I'LL DRINK TO THAT!" The question; Define your boat's Type? Ole Thom |
It finally hit me.
My little Honda is 9.9 HP but I don't run it much over half
throttle so I only use about six or so of the HP in very light or no wind conditions. It will go close to hull speed at a little over half throttle. I have tried it with sails down and powering straight into a brisk wind of about 30 knots on the shallow banks in the Bahamas and had it almost wide open but it would only push the boat along at four knots. It's better to motorsail with the main up and fall off about 20 degrees to the wind and go about six or seven knots. 38 HP for a 34 foot sailboat is a bit much. "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Are you claiming that your boat would fall apart if properly powered? Yes, I suppose it would. You might call my boat a "motorsailor" but it only has twin 18 hp engines, not exactly overpowered. So how small is your engine, that its unable to push the boat in all conditions? BTW, the current Lats & Atts has a review of the PDQ MV 34 "trawler." It comes with twin 75s, or twin 100 diesels. Simple Simon wrote: And that's one of the main differences between a real sailboat and a motorsailer like you operate (notice I was careful not to say 'sail') - sailboats are not designed to bang straight into the wind. They cannot do it under sail and they cannot do it under motor power unless they have such large motors that they are NO LONGER to be considered sailboats. Calling them motorsailers is a kindness they really don't deserve. They are just motorboats with sails. Go ahead and brag all you want how your motorboat can go straight into whatever chop and seas you care to mention. The bigger the better because all it proves is that you have a motorboat with sails. Me, I prefer a sailboat with a small auxiliary motor that can be and is lifted clear of the water when not needed. The more you talk the more you reveal your true personality. You are a dyed-in-the-wool motorboater and proud of it. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing argument that you're now bragging about how much you motorsailed around the Bahamas! Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can. Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible; even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1 knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions. |
It finally hit me.
I can play your game too - my engines are rated at 18 at 3600 rpm, but I normally run at
2700 where they are rated at 8 hp at the prop. So I really have a total of 16 hp for a 36 foot boat, which actually has the volume of a 45. But now you're saying that your boat can power into a chop - you just prefer to bear off a bit and carry an oversheeted main to gain some VMG and get a steadier ride. So I guess when the stupidity of your original claim was pointed out you decided that maybe my approach is more sensible. I knew you'd see it my way. Simple Simon wrote: My little Honda is 9.9 HP but I don't run it much over half throttle so I only use about six or so of the HP in very light or no wind conditions. It will go close to hull speed at a little over half throttle. I have tried it with sails down and powering straight into a brisk wind of about 30 knots on the shallow banks in the Bahamas and had it almost wide open but it would only push the boat along at four knots. It's better to motorsail with the main up and fall off about 20 degrees to the wind and go about six or seven knots. 38 HP for a 34 foot sailboat is a bit much. "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Are you claiming that your boat would fall apart if properly powered? Yes, I suppose it would. You might call my boat a "motorsailor" but it only has twin 18 hp engines, not exactly overpowered. So how small is your engine, that its unable to push the boat in all conditions? BTW, the current Lats & Atts has a review of the PDQ MV 34 "trawler." It comes with twin 75s, or twin 100 diesels. Simple Simon wrote: And that's one of the main differences between a real sailboat and a motorsailer like you operate (notice I was careful not to say 'sail') - sailboats are not designed to bang straight into the wind. They cannot do it under sail and they cannot do it under motor power unless they have such large motors that they are NO LONGER to be considered sailboats. Calling them motorsailers is a kindness they really don't deserve. They are just motorboats with sails. Go ahead and brag all you want how your motorboat can go straight into whatever chop and seas you care to mention. The bigger the better because all it proves is that you have a motorboat with sails. Me, I prefer a sailboat with a small auxiliary motor that can be and is lifted clear of the water when not needed. The more you talk the more you reveal your true personality. You are a dyed-in-the-wool motorboater and proud of it. S.Simon "Jeff Morris" jeffmo@NoSpam-sv-lokiDOTcom wrote in message ... Neal, you've totally lost it now! You're so eager to win a loosing argument that you're now bragging about how much you motorsailed around the Bahamas! Further, you've admitted that you have to, because your "vessel" is unable to power into a chop, like any proper boat can. Of course I prefer to motorsail instead of powering, when possible; even the catamaran is a lot smoother with sail up. But when I have to, I can power straight into a 4 foot chop and 20+ knots of wind and still make over 5 knots. The Banana Boat would at best make 1 knot, and at worst cook its engine, in these conditions. |
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