Hey Donal
 

KILL JOY!

I know, I know...but I will be heading out shortly and make the video. I should
have it available by Monday.


RB

Hey Donal
 

I know, I know...but I will be heading out shortly and make the video. I
should
have it available by Monday.


What's the plan, man? This is not an attack, or even the groundwork for an
attack. Just curious as to where you're going and when. Also, you should take
a 360 deg shot when out of sight of land to put all us doubters to shame. Too
bad it isn't next weekend, I am moving the boat from NJ to Sag Harbor and we
could have had our long awaited race.

Hey Donal
 

Also, you should take
a 360 deg shot when out of sight of land to put all us doubters to shame. Too
bad it isn't next weekend, I am moving the boat from NJ to Sag Harbor and we
could have had our long awaited race.

We're leaving tonight, taking the river to Jersey City. My friend's Tripp 32
gets launched there, so we'll take his slip and help him in the morning. Then
it's over to Sandy Hook, I think.
We have no specific plans to be "anywhere" but sailing. We may actually head
your way, depending on the winds. We don't have to be back until Sunday night,
but we have a longer weekend next week if we don't make it "far."
I hear Sunday will be a gift of strong air from a front moving into the area.
Anyone in NY harbor tomorrow or near Coney Island? We'll be sailing...I'll
monitor channel 72.

Capt RB

Hey Donal
 

Also, you should take
a 360 deg shot when out of sight of land to put all us doubters to shame.
Too
bad it isn't next weekend, I am moving the boat from NJ to Sag Harbor and we
could have had our long awaited race.

We're leaving tonight, taking the river to Jersey City. My friend's Tripp 32
gets launched there, so we'll take his slip and help him in the morning. Then
it's over to Sandy Hook, I think.
We have no specific plans to be "anywhere" but sailing. We may actually head
your way, depending on the winds. We don't have to be back until Sunday
night,
but we have a longer weekend next week if we don't make it "far."
I hear Sunday will be a gift of strong air from a front moving into the area.
Anyone in NY harbor tomorrow or near Coney Island? We'll be sailing...I'll
monitor channel 72.

Good on ya. I was over at the UN during lunch today watching the boats going
past, daydreaming about when we will take off. Funny how all the sailboats
seem to time the current right, but the motorboats don't seem to care, even if
it means slogging through a nasty adverse current. Anyway, it looks like a
good weekend for you. S - SW winds won't help you get down the jersey coast,
but will make for a nice sail back.

Hey Donal
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Capt. Mooron" wrote:

Doug... the topic was based on Bob's claim to be able to set or trim sails
so that a boat can hold and maintain course despite the rudder being free to
swing without restriction up wind from a beam to a close reach. I called
bull****.

Well, as much as it pains me to look like I'm agreeing with Bubbles (who is, to
coin a phrase, nuts), there is a tiny kernel of truth in his claim. Some boats,
when handled properly by some sailors, can do it.


There are some boats, yes. As I reported my old full keel boat would hold a close reach
all afternoon with a "floating" tiller. The real issue was whether a more modern fin
keeler, in particular a C&C 32, would do it.

















Now if you add a drogue to the stern that alone changes the "dynamics" and
emergency steering systems jury rigged would no doubt alter the outcome to
allow progress.

Probably not to windward though. Might be able to make a couple points VMG to
windward but certainly not anywhere near close hauled with a drogue. Try it if
you don't believe me.



It may even be believable that with sufficent and constant
adjustment of sails in flat seas and steady light wind that you can split
the swings to make progress upwind..... but trim to sail to a point without
a rudder.... I can't see it.

Like I said, it depends on the boat and very very much depends on the sailor.
Some boats won't, just like some girls. Sail to a point? Only if you're not real
picky about how small a point.

It gets much easier if the rudder can be locked in place, preferably at or close
to center.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hey Donal
 

There are some boats, yes. As I reported my old full keel boat would hold a
close reach
all afternoon with a "floating" tiller. The real issue was whether a more
modern fin
keeler, in particular a C&C 32, would do it.

She will indeed. So did Ghost. Please stand by as the video will be ready
shortly.

RB

Hey Donal
 

Jeff Morris wrote:


There are some boats, yes. As I reported my old full keel boat would hold a close reach
all afternoon with a "floating" tiller. The real issue was whether a more modern fin
keeler, in particular a C&C 32, would do it.

Well, I only have experience with a few fin keelers that would do it, and it might be
partially due to stiff steering. But I have sailed a lot of centerboard boats that would.
There's a problem translating this to big-boat sailing though, usually one cannot shift crew
weight to heel the boat 15 degrees to windward when desired for steering. Maybe this is how
Bubbles does it?

DSK

Hey Donal
 

I've sailed many dozens of centerboard boats - I can't imagine one that would sail with a
free tiller without some active control of weight and sails. In fact, many centerboard
boats can be sailed without a rudder. But this is not the same as tracking a straight
line unattended for and extended distance.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Morris wrote:


There are some boats, yes. As I reported my old full keel boat would hold a close
reach
all afternoon with a "floating" tiller. The real issue was whether a more modern fin
keeler, in particular a C&C 32, would do it.

Well, I only have experience with a few fin keelers that would do it, and it might be
partially due to stiff steering. But I have sailed a lot of centerboard boats that
would.
There's a problem translating this to big-boat sailing though, usually one cannot shift
crew
weight to heel the boat 15 degrees to windward when desired for steering. Maybe this is
how
Bubbles does it?

DSK

Hey Donal
 

Jeff Morris wrote:

I've sailed many dozens of centerboard boats - I can't imagine one that would sail with a
free tiller without some active control of weight and sails.

Right. That's exactly what it takes.... active & skilled control of the boat using trim of
both weight and sails. Did anybody say otherwise?


In fact, many centerboard
boats can be sailed without a rudder. But this is not the same as tracking a straight
line unattended for and extended distance.

Right again, but I never claimed I could "track a straight line unattended for an extended
distance" with the rudder swinging free. It seems you're looking for something that is not
here.

Maybe a soul that has achieved Nirvana can sail along a perfectly straight course with no
hand on the helm, just through sheer virtue & force of personality. However, I doubt anybody
hanging around this newsgroup is there yet.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hey Donal
 

"DSK" wrote in message
| Right again, but I never claimed I could "track a straight line unattended
for an extended
| distance" with the rudder swinging free. It seems you're looking for
something that is not
| here.

That's exactly the assumption I am contesting. Bob stated clearly he can
accomplish this feat with sail trim alone and that's the reason I called
Bull****. No doubt you can get some progress in optimim conditions... but in
no way can I see a boat sailing to weather with a free helm... you'd have to
have neutral helm to even approach to accomplish that.
Weather helm would make short work of the effort.

CM