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#151
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (See what makes it tick).
Being both an outboard motor rookie and a non-mechanic, I'm sure there are many out there who can look at these diagrams of the inner workings of my new Suzuki DF2.5 outboard and perhaps get a better idea on why it seems to operate against the norm. Let me know what you think after perusing the link. -Jay http://store.brownspoint.com/df2.5/2_50607.asp |
#152
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (See what makes it tick).
What a cute little motor :-)
Having perused the parts breakdown, I do believe I could take it completely apart and put it back together again. But I'm still not sure I see the advantage of designing the cooling system monitor the way it is. As long as it warns you in advance though, to shut down before you burn up, I say what the hey. Run with it. Looks like a spiffy litte motor to me. Rick On Tue, 27 May 08, Jay wrote: Being both an outboard motor rookie and a non-mechanic, I'm sure there are many out there who can look at these diagrams of the inner workings of my new Suzuki DF2.5 outboard and perhaps get a better idea on why it seems to operate against the norm. Let me know what you think after perusing the link. -Jay http://store.brownspoint.com/df2.5/2_50607.asp |
#153
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (And the cooling system is working!)
On Mon, 26 May 2008 23:02:07 -0700 (PDT), Jay
wrote: Vic, I think you may have the answer to the way the Suzuki 2.5 works and the other confusion is just the result of a crappily-written manual. From what I've gathered about this little OB, the water does not begin to squirt out the "holes" until the motor reached a certain operating temperature and the thermostat opens and releases the water to be squirted out of the holes. Poor telltales are probably more common than peehole gazers think. http://www.thehulltruth.com/forums/t...91970&posts=10 I've seen it mentioned with OB's other than Mercs too. IMO, that telltale is of limited use anyway, slightly better than nothing. Mostly when starting up - in some cases waiting a couple minutes until the thermostat opens to see the flow. Then what? When I was running small OB's I would sometimes run wide open for 1/2 an hour or more - looking where I was going and for overtakers, not all twisted up backwards like a pretzel around the motor staring at a telltale. In all the years I've fished on many different boats with many different engines and owners, I never saw anybody pay any attention to the telltale after the initial warmup and on subsequent restarts, when you're backwards cranking the rope anyway. Maybe half a minute after a pump failure before it starts affecting operation. Some designs might give you time to shut it down before any harm is done, others might not be so forgiving. Never happened to me, so that's speculation. I suspect the newer big ones have a temp sensor to throw an alarm or do a shutdown. Follow the impeller/thermostat maintenance schedule, check the telltale when you start it up, then forget about it or you'll get a twisted neck and maybe run into something. That's my take on it. The only owner experience I found was http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php?Number=1163278 which basically says the same thing you've been saying. And this http://macgregor26x.com/phpBB/viewto...ad0c a9faf140 Where the owner says the 1800 rpm idle is to meet the emissions target Suzuki was aiming at, and that he monkeyed with the idle to lower it, but then has to choke it to run smooth. Doesn't mention telltale. This motor has been around a while, and to find so little about it is probably a good thing. --Vic |
#154
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (See what makes it tick).
On May 27, 10:26*am, wrote:
What a cute little motor *:-) Having perused the parts breakdown, I do believe I could take it completely apart and put it back together again. Well, Rick, I knew a "nuts and bolts guy" like yourself would enjoy the parts diagram approach...lol. To you, it's not the sum total of the parts, IT'S THE PARTS...LOL But that's cool 'cause what would the world do without the details detail? So when do you want to come visit and take my motor apart and put it back together again? I'd need a hefty deposit though (insurance) before you started. -Jay |
#155
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
Go electric!
Why? Electricity comes from largely fossil-fueled sources. The factories that make the electric motors & the batteries are not really "clean" ecologically. Even if you largely recharge from solar panels, the pollution footprint from an electric outboard will be about 90% (or more) that of a regular gasoline outboard. OTOH these factors are certain to change in the next few decades. Another key difference is that the electric motor is quiet, reliable, produces it's torque efficiently at across a much wider range of RPMs, and won't leave stinky exhaust or an oil slick in your immediate environment... which may be nice in many situations. "Don White" wrote: I have a 30 lb. thrust Minn-Kota we used on a dinghy we once had but didn't think that would even budge the 14' aluminum boat. What thrust rating would you think it would take in an electric to achieve the same speed/power as the 4HP Suzuki DF4M? Well, you need to know the torque specs more than HP. It might help to look at the European specs for a range of motors, usually they specify power in KW not HP, so you can compare more directly. As a general rule of thumb, a 32-lb thrust motor is approx equal to a 5 HP. My 2004 Princecraft Yukon (14.5' open aluminum boat) came with an electric trolling motor.. and from what I've seen it's only good for creeping along as long as you're in protected calm water with no wind. I use it to take me from the launch ramp to a nearby dock and back again when it's time to retrieve. Yeah, but it was designed for TROLLING! Try putting a slightly higher pitch prop on it, and see what you get. I think oars would do just as good a job and be more reliable. HERESY! HERESY!! "We have found a witch, may we burn him?" Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
#156
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
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#157
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived! (See what makes it tick).
On May 28, 3:33*am, wrote:
Those diagrams don't have the information you would need to answer the question intelligently or correctly. Actually, the diagrams of the motor components were presented primarily so Rick could get a look at the inner workings of the little OB. They weren't meant to be a definitive problem-solver of any sort. It wouldn't matter if it did. Simple logic alone says that if a cooling telltale operates intermittantly when the engine is running fine, it is completely useless as a telltale to warn you when there is trouble. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Only if one is putting all of one's marbles in the "tell-tale" basket and assuming (perhaps correctly, perhaps incorrectly) there is no other warning system that the motor is overheating. Perhaps there could be a loud alarm when the temperature reaches critical levels or maybe a microchip inside connected to an artificial voice device talks to you in a very loud voice warning the operator of the imminent danger or maybe there's an "idiot light" like on cars or (gasp) even an gauge to monitor internal motor temps. Is the following a fair analogy? In an automobile engine, when the thermostat opens (indicating the water in the 'jacket' around the engine is getting too hot and it's time to be cooled), it "pees" the hot water back into the radiator to be cooled anew whereas, when the outboard gets too hot, the thermostat opens and "pees" the water back into the lake and the water pump of the outboard brings in new cool water from the lake (in essence, the outboard motor's "radiator"), just like the radiator sends cooled water to the engine jacket to replace the water "peed" out by the thermostat, to keep the outboard running at a normal operating temperature and preventing damage. So, (just speculating here), if the little Suzuki operates the same way, then water would NOT be coming out of the "pee holes" all the time, would it? It would only be expelled when necessary (i.e., when the internal thermostat said the water currently cooling the motor was too hot to properly do its job and fresh, cooler water was needed. Therefore, it would "pee" out the old and bring in fresh, cooler water from the lake to replace it --- ONLY when necessary...thus the "intermittent" ejection of water. Just my attempt at "simple logic" as stated by the previous author. Am I way off here in this stab at deductive reasoning? -Jay |
#158
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Suzuki DF4 vs. DF6
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#159
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP Has Arrived!
On May 28, 1:28*pm, Jay wrote:
On May 28, 3:33*am, wrote: Those diagrams don't have the information you would need to answer the question intelligently or correctly. Actually, the diagrams of the motor components were presented primarily so Rick could get a look at the inner workings of the little OB. *They weren't meant to be a definitive problem-solver of any sort. It wouldn't matter if it did. Simple logic alone says that if a cooling telltale operates intermittantly when the engine is running fine, it is completely useless as a telltale to warn you when there is trouble. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Only if one is putting all of one's marbles in the "tell-tale" basket and assuming (perhaps correctly, perhaps incorrectly) there is no other warning system that the motor is overheating. *Perhaps there could be a loud alarm when the temperature reaches critical levels or maybe a microchip inside connected to an artificial voice device talks to you in a very loud voice warning the operator of the imminent danger or maybe there's an "idiot light" like on cars or (gasp) even an gauge to monitor internal motor temps. Is the following a fair analogy? *In an automobile engine, when the thermostat opens (indicating the water in the 'jacket' around the engine is getting too hot and it's time to be cooled), it "pees" the hot water back into the radiator to be cooled anew whereas, when the outboard gets too hot, the thermostat opens and "pees" the water back into the lake and the water pump of the outboard brings in new cool water from the lake (in essence, the outboard motor's "radiator"), just like the radiator sends cooled water to the engine jacket to replace the water "peed" out by the thermostat, to keep the outboard running at a normal operating temperature and preventing damage. So, (just speculating here), if the little Suzuki operates the same way, then water would NOT be coming out of the "pee holes" all the time, would it? *It would only be expelled when necessary (i.e., when the internal thermostat said the water currently cooling the motor was too hot to properly do its job and fresh, cooler water was needed. Therefore, it would "pee" out the old and bring in fresh, cooler water from the lake to replace it --- ONLY when necessary...thus the "intermittent" ejection of water. Just my attempt at "simple logic" as stated by the previous author. *Am I way off here in this stab at deductive reasoning? -Jay |
#160
posted to rec.boats.cruising
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The Suzuki DF2.5 HP
On May 28, 2:37*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 28 May 2008 13:28:48 -0700 (PDT), Jay wrote: On May 28, 3:33*am, wrote: Those diagrams don't have the information you would need to answer the question intelligently or correctly. Actually, the diagrams of the motor components were presented primarily so Rick could get a look at the inner workings of the little OB. *They weren't meant to be a definitive problem-solver of any sort. It wouldn't matter if it did. Simple logic alone says that if a cooling telltale operates intermittantly when the engine is running fine, it is completely useless as a telltale to warn you when there is trouble. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Only if one is putting all of one's marbles in the "tell-tale" basket and assuming (perhaps correctly, perhaps incorrectly) there is no other warning system that the motor is overheating. * If the tell tale operates as you say it does, then it doesn't need to exist at all. Perhaps there could be a loud alarm when the temperature reaches critical levels or maybe a microchip inside connected to an artificial voice device talks to you in a very loud voice warning the operator of the imminent danger or maybe there's an "idiot light" like on cars or (gasp) even an gauge to monitor internal motor temps. More wishful dreaming Unless, of course, an outboard you had never heard of came out that had a device to warn the operator of overheating. Is the following a fair analogy? *In an automobile engine, when the thermostat opens (indicating the water in the 'jacket' around the engine is getting too hot and it's time to be cooled), it "pees" the hot water back into the radiator to be cooled anew whereas, when the outboard gets too hot, the thermostat opens and "pees" the water back into the lake and the water pump of the outboard brings in new cool water from the lake (in essence, the outboard motor's "radiator"), just like the radiator sends cooled water to the engine jacket to replace the water "peed" out by the thermostat, to keep the outboard running at a normal operating temperature and preventing damage. So, (just speculating here), if the little Suzuki operates the same way, then water would NOT be coming out of the "pee holes" all the time, would it? *It would only be expelled when necessary (i.e., when the internal thermostat said the water currently cooling the motor was too hot to properly do its job and fresh, cooler water was needed. Therefore, it would "pee" out the old and bring in fresh, cooler water from the lake to replace it --- ONLY when necessary...thus the "intermittent" ejection of water. Nope. You have it completely wrong from start to finish to the point of absurdity. The pee hole is an INDICATOR. It is not the outlet for all of the water in the cooling circuits. The amount of water that comes out of it is very small and could never be the outlet for all of the cooling water. The water in an outboard constantly circulates from the pump, up the leg and back down again to exit either through the center of the prop or an exhaust port. When the thermostat opens, it ADDITIONALLY allows the water to additionally circulate through cooling passages in the cyclinder head and crankcase to cool them. The purpose of the pee-hole is to tell you that the water pump is not running dry, and is pumping water up to the engine area where the pee-hole resides. That's a critical, do or die, piece of information. Okay, in an automobile, what device performs the do or die piece of information to indicate that the car's water pump is working or not? A temp gauge or red light? IOW, to say that the water pump is running dry is also to say the motor is overheating, isn't it? Doesn't one immediately lead to the other? Therefore, it would seem like all the processes are really interconnected. So you're saying the water coming out of the pee holes is not water being released by the thermostat in the Suzuki DF2.5? Yes or no? Just my attempt at "simple logic" as stated by the previous author. *Am I way off here in this stab at deductive reasoning? Yes. You couldn't be further off if you knew everything about engines and were deliberately making up a fairy tale. But didn't you think it was an interesting fairy tale? Finally, if this Suzuki outboard of mine runs for several years with water only INTERMITTENTLY coming out of the "pee" holes and it never overheats, will you still cling to the notion that it's a defective piece of equipment? IOW, will you argue and continue to denigrate a successful and non-defective outboard motor design? Finally, is the goat that is sacrificed at the altar of the pee hole required to be a virgin nanny? lol -Jay (still sorting all of this out) |
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