Hi All

I did a quick archive search but found nothing too useful. If anyone
could point me in the right direction that would be great.....

I've been getting a lot of comments recently about the size of my
paddle blades. They've been ground down considerably since 1998 and
instead of a symmetric blade shape they are now very similar to a
shrunk kinetic shape.

(This is only because I use my paddles the same way round all the
time. They were any orientation paddles, but luckily I kept using
them the same way and avoided ending up with very expensive cocktail
sticks!)

So enlighten me to the pros and cons of different blade sizes.....

I assume it's a relative assessment, but...

Large blades provide more power, but give a higher chance of injury?

Small blades allow/require a higher stroke rate for equivalent large
blade propulsion?

Is the size irrelevant, because all that is required is enough
friction to plant the blade and pull yourself past the shaft?

Should I buy some new paddles with normal sized blades?

I await your informed replies.
hf
roo

roo wrote:

I assume it's a relative assessment, but...

Large blades provide more power, but give a higher chance of injury?

Small blades allow/require a higher stroke rate for equivalent large
blade propulsion?

As a sea paddler, I find that narrower blades work better in my
particular case. It's like a lower gear on bike, you do have to keep up
a higher work rate, but putting less power into each stroke I find I can
keep going longer in comfort (never mind injury, my arms are just less
fatigued at the end of 20 miles). Also the case that paddling in big
winds is less of a problem with a smaller blade. If you look at
traditional Greenland paddles they're *very* narrow, about 3" or so, but
quite long. By routinely extending one's grip this allows more control
than you might think, and the buoyant nature of the wood makes rolling
and bracing far better than you'd imagine too. A friend of mine that
makes them has been seen happily surfing a playboat at St. Andrews using
Greenland paddles!
I use Lendal Archipelagos, which are about 10% smaller than the
Nordkapps most of the folk in my club use but otherwise the same
(Nordkapps are in turn a little smaller than Powermasters but otherwise
similar). I have Paddlok interchangable blades and a spare set of
Nordkapp blades, so I could easily test the different blades on the
exact same shaft. Doing this I chose the Archs as my main paddles.

Is the size irrelevant, because all that is required is enough
friction to plant the blade and pull yourself past the shaft?

If it is, I'm kidding myself one helluva lot in that last paragraph!

My arms aren't especially *strong*, but they have a fair bit of stamina
so can keep rolling around. The ladies in the club that have borrowed
my paddles also like them in comparison to the club's own Nordkapps. A
couple use and like Seamasters, no longer made but another narrow paddle.

Should I buy some new paddles with normal sized blades?

Do you need more raw power from single strokes? Are your current blades
proving a problem? If you like them and they do what you want, I'd keep
them!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"roo" wrote in message
om...
Hi All

I did a quick archive search but found nothing too useful. If anyone
could point me in the right direction that would be great.....

I've been getting a lot of comments recently about the size of my
paddle blades. They've been ground down considerably since 1998 and
instead of a symmetric blade shape they are now very similar to a
shrunk kinetic shape.

(This is only because I use my paddles the same way round all the
time. They were any orientation paddles, but luckily I kept using
them the same way and avoided ending up with very expensive cocktail
sticks!)

So enlighten me to the pros and cons of different blade sizes.....

I assume it's a relative assessment, but...

Large blades provide more power, but give a higher chance of injury?

Small blades allow/require a higher stroke rate for equivalent large
blade propulsion?

Is the size irrelevant, because all that is required is enough
friction to plant the blade and pull yourself past the shaft?

Should I buy some new paddles with normal sized blades?

I await your informed replies.
hf

Not an expert - so sorry for the basic knowledge, and any egg-suck teaching
going on, but:
1. Longer shaft, Longer, rounder blades = less turbulence in the water =
less power, less drag = more efficient for long distances and smooth easy
strokes. Also, they tend to be less sturdy, possibly offer less support, and
are more likely to be smacked/broken on rocks, so unsuited to shallow/white
water. Best for long distances.
2. Shorter shaft, shorter squarer blades = more turbulence = more power,
more drag = better for short distances, and powerful, controlled strokes.
However, less efficient for long distances. Suited to white water, but not
marathon/touring.

Some open Canoe paddlers I know take both and change depending upon the
stretch of water - but clearly this isn't a luxury offered to those in
Kayaks!

Ken.

Ken Catchpole wrote:

Some open Canoe paddlers I know take both and change depending upon the
stretch of water - but clearly this isn't a luxury offered to those in
Kayaks!

Just get splittable paddles...

Having said that, it's not going to be as easy to swap in a hurry as in
an open canoe!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"roo" wrote in message
om...
Hi All

Hi roo it's been a while!

Large blades provide more power, but give a higher chance of injury?

More power, yes, but you need to be stronger to get the best from them.
Excellent on white water when you need to get as much response as possible
from two or three strokes. I've never seen any evidence that they cause
injuries, but I suppose any paddle which isn't right for the use it's being
put to could do that.

Small blades allow/require a higher stroke rate for equivalent large
blade propulsion?

Short paddles allow (and probably encourage) a higher stroke rate, maybe
that's what you were thinking of. The combination of short paddles and
too-small blades is inefficient.

Is the size irrelevant, because all that is required is enough
friction to plant the blade and pull yourself past the shaft?

Yes size does matter (somebody had to say it) but in practice if you're a
normal size normal strength bloke then buy a normal paddle for the type of
stuff you do. If you're smaller than most (that often means either young or
female of course) then you might benefit from smaller blades.

Should I buy some new paddles with normal sized blades?

Depends on how you fit into the above!

Cheers,
Steve B.

(roo) wrote in message . com...
So enlighten me to the pros and cons of different blade sizes.....

I was once told by a bloke I met on The Awe, that in a normal stroke
the blade hardly moves through the water at all during the stroke. I
guess blade size affects how much it moves - too much (blades too
asmall) and the paddle stroke will be inneficient, too little (blades
too big) and the paddle stroke will be harder work and sore on the
paddler. In terms of power and stroke rate I thinmg that's much more
down to shaft length (ooh er missus) and paddling style than blade
area.

Acceleration from a standing start might be affected, I conce tried
some Inuit blades that seemed little more than a stick flattened at
each end, so felt like they had very little 'blade' area. Once you
were moving they were excellent however, very smooth and fast. Rolling
was fun though!

The above is probably related to efficient and fast forward paddling,
but when the power of the water comes into play (WW, playbobing) then
I would imagine a smaller blade are is indeed safer - I remember being
advised to let go of my blades with one hand if taking the inverted
unplanned green flush route through a big hole.

Is the size irrelevant, because all that is required is enough
friction to plant the blade and pull yourself past the shaft?

I'd guess that's the main design criterion for current blade sizes.

Should I buy some new paddles with normal sized blades?

Depends how different yours are to current models, 10% isn't going to
make much difference, 50% will.

Charlie wrote:

Acceleration from a standing start might be affected, I conce tried
some Inuit blades that seemed little more than a stick flattened at
each end, so felt like they had very little 'blade' area. Once you
were moving they were excellent however, very smooth and fast. Rolling
was fun though!

"Little more"? shurely "nothing more"? ;-)
Rolling is fine, as is bracing and extreme leaned turns, as long as you
remember that using these paddles is at least partly about routine use
of extended grip. As well as the ease of sliding them through your
hands, the very high natural buoyancy makes life easy with them too. In
the pool, at least, I find these easier to roll with than Standard Tat
Pool Paddles as they just float up to where you want them.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch wrote in message ...
Charlie wrote:

I conce tried
some Inuit blades that seemed little more than a stick flattened at
each end,

"Little more"? shurely "nothing more"? ;-)

I cant speak for Charlie directly but I think that he probably meant
"little more". Sounds like the blades were a bit more than a stick
flattened at each end? ;-) If they were "nothing more" wouldn't he
have described a stick flattened at each end that he conce tried to
paddle with.....

Rolling is fine, as is bracing and extreme leaned turns, as long as you
remember that using these paddles is at least partly about routine use
of extended grip.

Explain the extended grip to me for use with these paddles, please.

Cheers for the info people, I'm sticking with my blades for now until
I get an offer I can't refuse.

hf
roo

Inuit blades are a little more complex than Peter implies, but the
extreme styles do have blades that are probably no more than twice the
width of the shaft and most of the length of it. Being long and thin
they don't catch the wind so don't need to be feathered, I think the
shafts are ovalled for hands though as most of us are used to on our
paddles these days!

Extended paddle position - you just slide your hands along to one end,
like when you teach beginners to do pawlata rolls. The very narrow
blades mean that this is much easier, which is lucky as it's necessary
to get the extra leverage for certain strokes.

Never had a chance to try proper ones myself, although a friend made
some roughly in the style many years ago.

JIM

roo wrote:

Peter Clinch wrote in message ...

Charlie wrote:


I conce tried
some Inuit blades that seemed little more than a stick flattened at
each end,

"Little more"? shurely "nothing more"? ;-)


I cant speak for Charlie directly but I think that he probably meant
"little more". Sounds like the blades were a bit more than a stick
flattened at each end? ;-) If they were "nothing more" wouldn't he
have described a stick flattened at each end that he conce tried to
paddle with.....


Rolling is fine, as is bracing and extreme leaned turns, as long as you
remember that using these paddles is at least partly about routine use
of extended grip.


Explain the extended grip to me for use with these paddles, please.

Cheers for the info people, I'm sticking with my blades for now until
I get an offer I can't refuse.

hf
roo

Jim Wallis wrote:
Inuit blades are a little more complex than Peter implies, but the
extreme styles do have blades that are probably no more than twice the
width of the shaft and most of the length of it.

My friend wot builds his own Baidarkas also makes trad paddles that
really are pretty much a flattened log, certainly nowhere near twice as
wide as the centre. And he uses them to great effect too! I should
have a pic of Alf in action doing a monster lean with one in a Baidarka;
if I can find it I'll put it on a page and post the address.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/