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Old July 23rd 05, 11:02 PM
NYC XYZ
 
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Default Prijon Kodiak and Touryak NOT Good??


The local kayak shop doesn't carry these boats and thinks they're not
as good for the money as some Daggers and Neckys...I've always read
good reviews of both, and have actually done well in the Touryak as a
beginner, so what could they possibly be talking about??

Pls. advise -- TIA!


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Old July 24th 05, 12:21 AM
NYC XYZ
 
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Oh yeah, they also don't think highly of the highly-rated FirstLight
kayaks. What gives?



NYC XYZ wrote:
The local kayak shop doesn't carry these boats and thinks they're not
as good for the money as some Daggers and Neckys...I've always read
good reviews of both, and have actually done well in the Touryak as a
beginner, so what could they possibly be talking about??

Pls. advise -- TIA!


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Old July 24th 05, 11:20 AM
Gary S.
 
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On 23 Jul 2005 16:21:23 -0700, "NYC XYZ"
wrote:

Oh yeah, they also don't think highly of the highly-rated FirstLight
kayaks. What gives?

NYC XYZ wrote:
The local kayak shop doesn't carry these boats and thinks they're not
as good for the money as some Daggers and Neckys...I've always read
good reviews of both, and have actually done well in the Touryak as a
beginner, so what could they possibly be talking about??

I have seen shops speak negatively of brands they do not carry, and
then a year or two later, when they do carry those brands, all of a
sudden those brands are the best. And vice-versa.

The job of a salesperson is to sell you something that they have, not
to review the entire market of possible options for you.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
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Old July 24th 05, 01:16 PM
Brian Nystrom
 
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Gary S. wrote:
On 23 Jul 2005 16:21:23 -0700, "NYC XYZ"
wrote:


Oh yeah, they also don't think highly of the highly-rated FirstLight
kayaks. What gives?

NYC XYZ wrote:

The local kayak shop doesn't carry these boats and thinks they're not
as good for the money as some Daggers and Neckys...I've always read
good reviews of both, and have actually done well in the Touryak as a
beginner, so what could they possibly be talking about??


I have seen shops speak negatively of brands they do not carry, and
then a year or two later, when they do carry those brands, all of a
sudden those brands are the best. And vice-versa.

The job of a salesperson is to sell you something that they have, not
to review the entire market of possible options for you.


While that's true, a good salesman will not simply bad-mouth the
competition. If there are known deficiencies in another brand, he may
choose to explain them; otherwise, he should simply say that they make
good boats but that don't carry them and show you something equivalent.
I would be highly skeptical of any dealer that bashes brands they don't
carry, but it could be just a case of an untrained salesperson.

Prijon make good quality boats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that
they make one that suits your needs. As a general rule, you're better
off to buy a boat that you can demo, rather than buying on reputation.

I had never heard of FirstLight kayaks until you mentioned them. They're
folding boats and nothing like Prijons. I suggest that you decide what
type of boat you want before you worry about specific brands. While a
dealer may be able to help you sort that out, you could also cause a lot
of frustration if you simply bounce back and forth between various ideas.
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Old July 24th 05, 01:50 PM
Dan Koretz
 
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I've never paddled either of these boats, although my whitewater boat is
a Prijon, and in general they make very good boats.

If a salesman can point to a real weakness, particularly one you can
verify, I'd pay attention. Otherwise, particularly for well-reviewed
boats (like the Kodkiak), I would not pay much attention. You don't
know whether the guy is a "good" salesman, but you know he loses the
business if you buy a Prijon.

I second what Gary says: don't buy a boat unless you can paddle it. A
boat that is great for some people may not be for you. So I would gather
opinions about a variety of boats that seem to match your needs -- the
kind of paddling you want to do, how much you weigh, how big your feet
are, and even how wide your hips are if you are big -- and then take
your time to paddle several. When I bought my current boat, I paddled
several that are supposedly good for people with my weight and
dimensions. In the end, there were only 2 that I was really comfortable
in, and those two handled completely differently. I bought a boat that
was not even on my initial list (but it is well reviewed), and a year
later, I don't have any regrets. I would have regretted buying any of
the others that had been recommended to me.



Brian Nystrom wrote the following on 7/24/2005 8:16 AM:
Gary S. wrote:

On 23 Jul 2005 16:21:23 -0700, "NYC XYZ"
wrote:


Oh yeah, they also don't think highly of the highly-rated FirstLight
kayaks. What gives?

NYC XYZ wrote:

The local kayak shop doesn't carry these boats and thinks they're not
as good for the money as some Daggers and Neckys...I've always read
good reviews of both, and have actually done well in the Touryak as a
beginner, so what could they possibly be talking about??


I have seen shops speak negatively of brands they do not carry, and
then a year or two later, when they do carry those brands, all of a
sudden those brands are the best. And vice-versa.

The job of a salesperson is to sell you something that they have, not
to review the entire market of possible options for you.



While that's true, a good salesman will not simply bad-mouth the
competition. If there are known deficiencies in another brand, he may
choose to explain them; otherwise, he should simply say that they make
good boats but that don't carry them and show you something equivalent.
I would be highly skeptical of any dealer that bashes brands they don't
carry, but it could be just a case of an untrained salesperson.

Prijon make good quality boats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that
they make one that suits your needs. As a general rule, you're better
off to buy a boat that you can demo, rather than buying on reputation.

I had never heard of FirstLight kayaks until you mentioned them. They're
folding boats and nothing like Prijons. I suggest that you decide what
type of boat you want before you worry about specific brands. While a
dealer may be able to help you sort that out, you could also cause a lot
of frustration if you simply bounce back and forth between various ideas.



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Old July 24th 05, 04:26 PM
NYC XYZ
 
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Default


Indeed. I'm just shocked -- shocked! -- that it could be so
out-and-out false, as evidenced by all the glowing user reviews (even
the one review I found where the fella actually wound up returning his
Kodiak was fairly positive).

Anyway, the guy's asked me to stop by so that he can explain things
better to me at the shop.


To be continued!



Gary S. wrote:

I have seen shops speak negatively of brands they do not carry, and
then a year or two later, when they do carry those brands, all of a
sudden those brands are the best. And vice-versa.

The job of a salesperson is to sell you something that they have, not
to review the entire market of possible options for you.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom


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Old July 24th 05, 04:37 PM
NYC XYZ
 
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Default


Brian Nystrom wrote:


While that's true, a good salesman will not simply bad-mouth the
competition. If there are known deficiencies in another brand, he may
choose to explain them; otherwise, he should simply say that they make
good boats but that don't carry them and show you something equivalent.


To be fair, this was a telephone conversation of about eight minutes,
and he did have a shop to run. Also, he didn't exactly "bad-mouth"
these Prijon models are much as dismiss them. Details to follow upon
forthcoming shop visit....

I would be highly skeptical of any dealer that bashes brands they don't
carry, but it could be just a case of an untrained salesperson.


Fellow sounded like these "nice guys" on NPR, if you know what I mean,
and sounded knowledgable enough to note something to the effect that
"just because Prijon has invented this anti-oil-caning process...."
(??)

Prijon make good quality boats, but that doesn't necessarily mean that
they make one that suits your needs. As a general rule, you're better
off to buy a boat that you can demo, rather than buying on reputation.


Well, I've mini-toured the Touryak for almost two hours during a
full-moon current and was happy enough.

I had never heard of FirstLight kayaks until you mentioned them.


Nineteen pounds! Clear urethene available, too! Unfortunately, you
need clear tropical paradise waters to take advantage of that.

They're
folding boats and nothing like Prijons. I suggest that you decide what
type of boat you want before you worry about specific brands. While a
dealer may be able to help you sort that out, you could also cause a lot
of frustration if you simply bounce back and forth between various ideas.


Indeed, that's why I like to troll usenet! =)

Actually, I do know what I want -- I want both a hardshell and a
foldable! The hardshell's for just dumping the thing in the Hudson and
getting on with it. The foldable's for being able to go anywhere and
launch from anywhere.

The Kodiak and Touryak are listed as good beginner's boats which can
also last one into the advanced stages (which I don't even really care
to attain). As I've actually paddled on mini-tours and taken
instruction in both, I feel comfortable buying these near-cheapest of
plastic hardshells with such solid reputations.

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Old July 24th 05, 05:05 PM
Gary S.
 
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Default

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:50:15 -0400, Dan Koretz
wrote:


I second what Gary says: don't buy a boat unless you can paddle it. A
boat that is great for some people may not be for you. So I would gather


Might be another Gary, but I would very much agree. Just like many
other things, a test "drive" is absolutely essential in anything where
fit, "feel", performance and comfort matter.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
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Old July 24th 05, 05:07 PM
Gary S.
 
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Default

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 12:16:44 GMT, Brian Nystrom
wrote:

Gary S. wrote:


I have seen shops speak negatively of brands they do not carry, and
then a year or two later, when they do carry those brands, all of a
sudden those brands are the best. And vice-versa.

The job of a salesperson is to sell you something that they have, not
to review the entire market of possible options for you.


While that's true, a good salesman will not simply bad-mouth the
competition. If there are known deficiencies in another brand, he may
choose to explain them; otherwise, he should simply say that they make
good boats but that don't carry them and show you something equivalent.
I would be highly skeptical of any dealer that bashes brands they don't
carry, but it could be just a case of an untrained salesperson.

There are many good salespeople out there, and you are right. The good
ones focus on what is better about their choice, and better suited to
your individual needs.

But they are not all "good".

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom
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Old July 24th 05, 08:12 PM
 
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Somewhere in this link the word Prijon and cheap came up in the same
sentence.
I have some experience with the Seayak and Kodiak. Fine boats, but not
cheap as plastic goes.
Prijon has a superb plastic, less than beautiful lines but remains a
fine boat for a beginner and is a rugged boat for the advanced paddler
needing a utility boat ( rock hopping , tour guiding and things that
require harsh treatment.
The Prijon is pricy for its clas and the dealer is likely looking at a
WS , Tempest say; and comparing it to the Prijon boat. Much cheaper and
the Tempest is for my taste a little nicer to paddle ( Roll , brace ,
turn etc.)
I am a British style boat fan.
I own 2 Prijon boats. Fine boats that seam indistructable.
Like Brian and others will tell you, try the boat and get the one you
like, what works for me others hate.
Ratings from less than experienced paddlers can be counter productive
so best try the boat your self and formulate an opinion.
Good luck.
Alex
Oh , I found Kodiak a little sluggish on a roll.



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