On 15-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

extruded, hardened Aluminum,
[...]
terms of Titanium,
[...]
might think of a fiber glass or Kevlar pole
[...]
grained piece of Douglas Fir.

Old wood hockey stick. Ash - just cut to length.

Mike

On 16-Mar-2005, "Tinkerntom" wrote:

Anyway, back to your rack, I would look into using a 2x4, U-bolted on
top of the existing rack to the side runners, and allow the 2x4 to

Depending on the roof curvature, you might need a 2x6, but - don't
put the wood on the existing rack. Cut one side of the 2x6 to
match the curvature of the roof, cover with a layer of thin carpet
or strong, closed-cell foam and then rest it on the roof directly.
U-bolt it to the rack crossbar. Make one for each of the front
and rear crossbars.

This way, the wood carries the load directly to the roof and the
existing cheap factory rack only holds it in place. You can
attach almost anything to the 2x6 to tie down canoes, kayaks
etc.

Don't have the wood extending past the side of the vehicle any
more than legal. Use a piece of old wood hockey stick to make
an extender and use a couple of long bolts to stick into holes
in the 2x6 to temporarily hold it in place.

Use cedar for the 2x6 and you don't have to finish it. No
problems with rot or insect damage for years.

Mike

On 16-Mar-2005, "BCITORGB" wrote:

No, here in Canada we get to have all sorts of things jutting
out past the car's footprint.

Better double check that - in Ontario you can't and you also have
to tie down the bow and stern of a canoe/kayak if it extends
over the roof.

Mike

On 16-Mar-2005, "No Spam" wrote:

At any rate I think the schedule 40 pipe on the car is
the ticket because it will not rust and it should hold just fine.

Sched 40 can rust if it is steel. You'd have to get sched 40 in stainless
if you don't want rust. Sched 40 specifies the dimensions, not the material.

Mike

BCITORGB wrote:
Gary says:
===============
Depends on the state, but generally it is not legal to drive with
something on the roof which extends beyond the footprint of the car.

You would need to slide the 2x4 back onto the roof when loaded.
===================

ROTFL! No, here in Canada we get to have all sorts of things jutting
out past the car's footprint. It might have something to do with our
British heritage: jousting and all, don't you know.... GRIN....

Yes, of course the 2X4 with be fastened length-wise.

Cheers,
Wilf
===============

See, I told you Red Green would be proud of you, and should have you on
his show as a guest inventor! Basically what I had in mind, especially
the shower part. Some say my ideas are all wet, and I say, they should
be. I came up with them in the shower!

What you might think in terms of, is use a shorter 2x4, slightly wider
than the existing rack, up to the width of the van, that is lashed down
to the existing rack. All your foam support will be attached to this.
Use one of these on the front and back of the van, so that you could
use the following extender to load from front or back, and from either
side of vehicle. You will eventually find yourself up against a tree or
a drop off or cliff, where you can not always load/unload from the same
side.

Then use a full eight footer that will just be used temporarily to load
the Kayak. This would be lashed along side and temporarily to the
shorter 2x4. The shorter 2x4 would give you clearance for the longer
one to fit under the hull of the boat when you lift it into place. Then
you will be able to remove the longer 2x4, and tie along side hull for
transport, as you already thought of.

Now if you want to really get with this part of the program, actually
carry 2 of these longer 2x4, one extended in front, and one in back,
that can be used as a frame to support a privacy tarp along side your
vehicle. This way, you could have a little changing room even in a busy
parking lot, or road side, and if you put a tarp over the top you would
have privacy from low flying planes, and some rain shelter as well.
Besides looking at that pile of foam, you are definitely getting the
hang of getting your van to blend into a parking lot of boater
vehicles!:)

You would normally put this shelter alongside the sliding door side of
the van, so that you can access the van interior. This is especially
important when you get your wet suit on Fathers Day, that you will want
to put it on at the launch site, and don't want everyone seeing the
short, plump, old guy in a Speedo getting in to or out of the wetsuit.
Once you get it on, you look pretty cool, like Jacque! The gymnastics
of donning a wetsuit, can be intrigueing to say the least, and rate up
there with some Olympic sports, or at least what goes on at some local
strip joints, and is equally interesting to watch! And if this is not
ugly enough, it would certainly destroy the mystery of what is worn
under the kilt!

This would also give you a small shower area, if you want to wash salt
off when you get back to the van, before you head home. Makes that trip
more enjoyable for everyone, if it is very long. You can carry a sun
shower in the car, or several gallons of fresh water, get a floor pan
to stand in, or just a pair of flip-flops. Your daughters and wife, may
especially appreciate this small bit of civilization, after a long
paddle trip, and who knows what other great ideas you will come up with
while in the shower, maybe a ho****er tank on top of the van!:)

This also gives you a place to quickly store your kayak, if you are out
tripping and don't want to leave it on the shore, or go to the trouble
of actually tying it on the vehicle. I ran into the situation whild
camping, where the authorities would not allow any boat to stay at
waters edge overnight. All boats had to be reloaded on boat trailer
every night, and relaunched every AM. This included smaller roof
mounted craft. Even though I did not have to use the boat ramp, this
policy may have had more to do with the $6.00 boat ramp fee they
charged everytime the bigger boats had to launch using it. What a money
maker that was for someone!

Anyway, you are definitely getting the hang of this. Now if we can get
you to fall off your workbench a few more times, landing of course on
your head, you will be ready for Red Green! TnT

Michael says:
===============
Depending on the roof curvature, you might need a 2x6, but - don't
put the wood on the existing rack. Cut one side of the 2x6 to
match the curvature of the roof, cover with a layer of thin carpet
or strong, closed-cell foam and then rest it on the roof directly.
U-bolt it to the rack crossbar. Make one for each of the front
and rear crossbars.
================

WOW! Fantastic ideas.

THNX
Wilf

Mike thinks:
==============
Better double check that - in Ontario you can't and you also have
to tie down the bow and stern of a canoe/kayak if it extends
over the roof.
==============

I was just kidding Gary who, I guess, had visions of me driving down
the highway with four feet of 2X4 sweeping people off the sidewalks.
LOL

We're crazy out here in BC, but not that loony.

Cheers,
Wilf
========

On 16 Mar 2005 14:16:02 -0800, "BCITORGB"
wrote:

Mike thinks:
==============
Better double check that - in Ontario you can't and you also have
to tie down the bow and stern of a canoe/kayak if it extends
over the roof.
==============

I was just kidding Gary who, I guess, had visions of me driving down
the highway with four feet of 2X4 sweeping people off the sidewalks.
LOL

We're crazy out here in BC, but not that loony.

If you had seen some of the overwidth boat carrying setups that I have
seen, you would understand that it is not just a vision.

Not all share your level of sanity.

The damn things are dangerous even when parked, for people trying to
walk by. On city streets, they could be lethal.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

BCITORGB wrote:
Michael says:
===============
Depending on the roof curvature, you might need a 2x6, but - don't
put the wood on the existing rack. Cut one side of the 2x6 to
match the curvature of the roof, cover with a layer of thin carpet
or strong, closed-cell foam and then rest it on the roof directly.
U-bolt it to the rack crossbar. Make one for each of the front
and rear crossbars.
================

WOW! Fantastic ideas.

THNX
Wilf

See, I knew Michael would have some good Ideas, especially the hockey
stick. You being into field hockey, might know where to find some of
those. We don't have so much ash down here. Cedar is also good idea!

The only consideration about fitting the 2x6 to the curve of the roof,
is that the roof supports inside the body run across the width of the
van. You would want to locate the 2x6 directly on one of these,
otherwise it would just be the skin of the van supporting the load. The
skin on these newer vehicles is so thin, it will easily bend, and you
will end up with a van with a concave roof. Not good where it rains a
lot!

Contrary to Michaels suggestion, I would still recommend that the
logitudinal runners of the existing stock rack, support the crossmember
whether 2x4 or 2x6. These longitudinal runners span from one body
support to another, and would spread out the weight of the load instead
of concentrating it in just one spot, or one body support. If the
existing rack collapsed under the load, you can more easily replace or
repair the rack, than straighten out the concave roof. Though I did
know one character that would regularly get inside his car, and laying
on his back, pop the roof back out with his feet. I personally have
trouble seeing you frtzw doing this, but then you have already
surprised me a few times!:)

This might lead you to consider adding a 2x4 runner to your home brewed
rack, that would run parallel to the existing runner, and the 2x4 cross
member would rest on and be attached to this runner which is bolted to
the standard runners. Carpet, or rubber strips on these runners will
protect the car paint from being worn through and leading to rusting of
the car body.

I noticed in your picture that there is quite a bit of overhang over
the roof of the van. You could extend these 2x4 runners further
forward, to the front of the van, so that the cross member could be
mounted as far forward as possible, and would allow for more support to
the kayak. I would hate to have you break the keel of the boat by using
just the short standard rack length.

Some would support the extended length with some foam on top of the
roof at the front of van. I saw a boat that had been setting out in the
sun, and then driven with road vibrations and wind load. Sadly the
whole thing had collapsed like a wet noodle down over the top of the
car, and to say the least, was beyond repair.

This is a bigger problem with the long poly boats like what you have.
That stern and bow line that you need to keep the boat on the rack, can
easily break its back. So snug is good, but not to tight!

Your report was great, and I look forward to more pictures. Include one
of your happy mug, to convince me though you're having a good time!

BTW you may begin to figure that I own stock in Greater Northwest
Lumber & 2x4 futures! grin

Some projects never end, they just lead to another! Especially if you
take very many showers!

For example, some find as they get "older" that the weight of the boat
gets harder to lift to the rack. Using this foundational rack that we
have in place, set up a small lift with pulley to pull kayak up onto
rack. I have a friend with a motorhome, that he developed such a
system. He has arthritis, and has trouble with the weight now, though
he still enjoys a short paddle. Red Green is waiting for you, TnT

Tink, more great ideas!

Thanks, I'll have an extra addition to my house built up on top of the
van before this is over. GRIN

Cheers,
Wilf
===============