"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 05:56:29 -0600, "Wolfgang"
There is a common plant called the "giant reed"......grows along roadsides
(as well as other places) throughout the upper Great Lakes region. I've
looked up the Latin binomial in the past when I thought about growing it
in
my yard, but don't remember it. It shouldn't be hard to find on Google.

I have no idea of how similar it is to papyrus. As a matter of fact, I
don't know much about either plant, but the giant reed is tubular and
hollow......seems like it ought to float.

Wolfgang

Googled it. Invasive, too, so maybe no one would mind it being cut.
However, that easy burning part even when green is scary for a smoker.

Seems to me like yet another reason to grow it.......it's gotta be cheaper
than buying tobacco. :)

Wolfgang
who adamantly opposes the sale of giant reeds to minors! :(

Wolfgang wrote:
"Cyli" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 05:56:29 -0600, "Wolfgang"
There is a common plant called the "giant reed"......grows along
roadsides
(as well as other places) throughout the upper Great Lakes region.
I've
looked up the Latin binomial in the past when I thought about
growing it
in
my yard, but don't remember it. It shouldn't be hard to find on
Google.

I have no idea of how similar it is to papyrus. As a matter of
fact, I
don't know much about either plant, but the giant reed is tubular
and
hollow......seems like it ought to float.

Wolfgang

Googled it. Invasive, too, so maybe no one would mind it being
cut.
However, that easy burning part even when green is scary for a
smoker.

Seems to me like yet another reason to grow it.......it's gotta be
cheaper
than buying tobacco. :)

Wolfgang
who adamantly opposes the sale of giant reeds to minors! :(

Wolfgang, I tried Googling; reed boat, North America and Canada, and
found very few references that would indicate that there was any use of
reed boats by the indigenous people, who would normally utilize local
building material.

Apparently the N. American reeds were not satisfactory for reed boats,
or at least as you point out better suited for smoking. Or there was
better sources of birch bark, or logs for dugout canoes, and actually
there was a lot better smoking grass, reeds being a poormans
substitute. Building reed boats being the hobby of those who don't
smoke some of the better brands of grass and tabacco, or at least a
poor substitute! And those who smoke, never quite get around to
building boats, or even going buffaloe hunting, so what do you need a
boat for anyway.

A major problem with reed boats is that they are constantly absorbing
water, and will more than double their initial weight. This would make
them very difficult to pull up on shore. A typical reed boat could
start out weighing 15 tons in Peru, and 30 when it became totally water
logged and useless, which was not a problem if all you had to do was
float around a big lake and fish all day.

One site indicated that reed boats typically last only 8 months, and
any reed boat pulled up on shore, was subject to being eaten by the
local cows, so with all the buffaloe in North America, reed boats did
not last very long at all. Apparently the folks down in S.Am. did not
have the large buffalo herds to contend with, or more time on their
hands to build boats, or no other local building materials are
available at 13000 ft. in the high Andean Platean. Or did not have to
portage a 15-30 ton boat, which would be a real drag, if you were
smoking much grass to begin with.

It was just not worth the effort having a boat. Which is probably still
true today, but what the heck, if you're not pouring money into a hole
in the water, and the gov frowns on alternative hobbies of smoking your
boat, what is a guy to do now that the buffaloe are all gone, and there
are not any big lakes around to float on and fish all day? TnT

Tink suggests:
==============
And those who smoke, never quite get around to
building boats, or even going buffaloe hunting, so what do you need a
boat for anyway.
============

OK, Tink, you're the guy who lives in what might have been buffalo
country (I'm not sure), so I'll take your word for it: they needed
BOATS to hunt buffalo?! GRIN

Wow! Cool! I'd love to see the harpoons they used. Of course, it makes
perfect sense as the Nootka people on the west coast of Vancouver
Island were very adept at herding the orcas onto the beaches with their
horses. Marvelous horsemen they were.

Cheers,
Wilf

BCITORGB wrote:
Tink suggests:
==============
And those who smoke, never quite get around to
building boats, or even going buffaloe hunting, so what do you need a
boat for anyway.
============

OK, Tink, you're the guy who lives in what might have been buffalo
country (I'm not sure), so I'll take your word for it: they needed
BOATS to hunt buffalo?! GRIN

Now I can not say for sure, but from what I understand about smoking
grass, some of the side affects is that you are pretty mellow and don't
have many needs except maybe more smoke. You don't need boats, you
don't need to hunt buffaloe, and you certainly don't need boats to hunt
buffaloe. :)

Of course maybe that is why the buffaloe died out about the same time
the steam locomotive started crossing the Great Plains. The buffaloe
thought they were indians blowing all that smoke, carrying boats on
their back while hunting buffaloe. Scared the poor critters into near
extinction! Besides all that blasted whistle tooten, no buffaloe could
get a decent night sleep, so they were suffering sleep deprivation,
which only added to their hallucinations brought on by all that smoke.

Wow! Cool! I'd love to see the harpoons they used. Of course, it
makes
perfect sense as the Nootka people on the west coast of Vancouver
Island were very adept at herding the orcas onto the beaches with
their
horses. Marvelous horsemen they were.

Cheers,
Wilf

As for your horsemen, I will google them and see what I find out, but I
am sure it had more to do with the seahorses they were riding. The
Orcas actually did all the work. They saw those seahorses carrying on
like they were herding the orcas, and they thought if seahorses
carrying men can come out in the ocean, then we should be able to crawl
out of the water and take a stroll into town. So they would hit the
beach running... er, should I say swimming, and meet their end. Turns
out the Nootka probably were smoking the grass too, and were exhaling
it out over the water where the orca had to come up and breathe, and
the whole thing was a hallucination as well. The problem for the orca
was they never caught on to the trick of the smoke, since those who
experienced it were immedately removed from the gene pool. TnT

On 26 Mar 2005 12:46:06 -0800, "BCITORGB"
wrote:

Tink suggests:
==============
And those who smoke, never quite get around to
building boats, or even going buffaloe hunting, so what do you need a
boat for anyway.
============

OK, Tink, you're the guy who lives in what might have been buffalo
country (I'm not sure), so I'll take your word for it: they needed
BOATS to hunt buffalo?! GRIN

Wow! Cool! I'd love to see the harpoons they used. Of course, it makes
perfect sense as the Nootka people on the west coast of Vancouver
Island were very adept at herding the orcas onto the beaches with their
horses. Marvelous horsemen they were.

To introduce something factual to this fun, yes, the Indians sometimes
did use boats in the process of their buffalo hunts. There's an old
engraving I've seen with some included text showing how they'd make a
coracle out of buffalo skin and willows and transport the meat and
hides to the villages for processing. As an extra tidbit, it was
indicated that the boat operators were women. I got the impression
that this was a fairly common thing. Maybe hunting near / in water
was easier than on land, with the buffalo getting bogged down and
slowed?

Cyli
r.bc: vixen. Minnow goddess. Speaker to squirrels.
Often taunted by trout. Almost entirely harmless.

http://www.visi.com/~cyli
email: lid (strip the .invalid to email)

Cyli says:
===============
To introduce something factual to this fun, yes, the Indians sometimes
did use boats in the process of their buffalo hunts.
=============

Check-mate!

Until I can find evidence of the coastal First Nations using horses to
corral the orca. GRIN

But then I'm just a hwunitum, so what do I know.

Kla-How-Ya
Wilf

BCITORGB wrote:
Cyli says:
===============
To introduce something factual to this fun, yes, the Indians
sometimes
did use boats in the process of their buffalo hunts.
=============

Check-mate!

Until I can find evidence of the coastal First Nations using horses
to
corral the orca. GRIN

But then I'm just a hwunitum, so what do I know.

Kla-How-Ya
Wilf

Well I risk the rath of the mostly harmless Cyli, to point out that
the women did take the SUV to the market and do all the shopping even
back then.

The point I was trying to make about boats though did not include
coracles. I was speaking of reed boats that you would ply the praries
with, enticing the buffaloe to come for a free meal, then when they
were busy eating, and not looking you would dispatch them for your own
dinner.

Bait and Switch is as old as hunting buffaloe, and building boats. TnT

Michael Daly wrote:
On 18-Mar-2005, "BCITORGB" wrote:


See what you think about this: I cut deep into the 2x6 crosspiece
(rectangular cut) and then create a sling using a fairly wide webbing
strap (perhaps 1.5" wide to correspond to the 1.5" cross-section of the
2x6).


===================

PROGRESS REPORT

The sling idea bit the dust, as the hull-shaped cuts into the 2x6's
worked quite well.

Today I u-bolted the roof contraption onto the factory r-rack. Not
elegant (a function of my lack of woodworking skills), but when you're
working with 2x6's and 2x4's, there's room for some error and elegance
goes out the window (I find solace in "form follows function" -- it
functions).

What impressed me, once I got the frame bolted down, was that there was
absolutely no squeaking (which I had anticipated). I had thought that
the 2x4-on-roof-interface would "squeack".

In the case of my roof, there are 4 "channels" lengthwise along the
roof. I have constructd the frame in such a way so as to have the 2x4
logitudinal pieces fit into these channels (luckily, these channels are
just over 1.5" wide, so a very nice fit).

Once I'd mounted the frame, I decided that wing-nuts were what were
required for the u-bolts -- another trip to the hardware store...

Next project: glue the foam rubber to the hull-shaped cut-outs in the
2x6 cross pieces. So, a question to all of you who have had a part in
this design: what's the best glue for attaching foam rubber to wood?
Ordinary wood glue?

As I look at this thing you guys had me create, I realize an added
benefit. With 4 corner posts, mounted somewhere in the yard, the frame
will also serve as a place on which to "store" the kayak when it's not
on the van. Pure genius, people.

Thanks.

Wilf
++++++++++++++++



Mike

frtzw906 wrote:
Michael Daly wrote:
On 18-Mar-2005, "BCITORGB" wrote:


See what you think about this: I cut deep into the 2x6 crosspiece
(rectangular cut) and then create a sling using a fairly wide
webbing
strap (perhaps 1.5" wide to correspond to the 1.5" cross-section of
the
2x6).


===================

PROGRESS REPORT

The sling idea bit the dust, as the hull-shaped cuts into the 2x6's
worked quite well.

Today I u-bolted the roof contraption onto the factory r-rack. Not
elegant (a function of my lack of woodworking skills), but when
you're
working with 2x6's and 2x4's, there's room for some error and
elegance
goes out the window (I find solace in "form follows function" -- it
functions).

What impressed me, once I got the frame bolted down, was that there
was
absolutely no squeaking (which I had anticipated). I had thought that

the 2x4-on-roof-interface would "squeack".

In the case of my roof, there are 4 "channels" lengthwise along the
roof. I have constructd the frame in such a way so as to have the 2x4

logitudinal pieces fit into these channels (luckily, these channels
are
just over 1.5" wide, so a very nice fit).

Once I'd mounted the frame, I decided that wing-nuts were what were
required for the u-bolts -- another trip to the hardware store...

Next project: glue the foam rubber to the hull-shaped cut-outs in the

2x6 cross pieces. So, a question to all of you who have had a part in

this design: what's the best glue for attaching foam rubber to wood?
Ordinary wood glue?

As I look at this thing you guys had me create, I realize an added
benefit. With 4 corner posts, mounted somewhere in the yard, the
frame
will also serve as a place on which to "store" the kayak when it's
not
on the van. Pure genius, people.

Thanks.

Wilf
++++++++++++++++



Mike

Wilf, Good to hear that things are still coming together!

I might suggest that instead of wingnuts, you check out "nuts with
nylon inserts" which you don't have to worry about working their way
loose.

Wing nuts are convienent for you, but also for the thief in the parking
lot who won't have much of a challenge to remove your boat, rack, and
the whole kitnkabboodle! Won't you be putting the rack on and off the
van once per season. Use a wrench that one time, though I realize you
think you are power tool challenged, I am sure that we can talk you
through how a wrench works. Especially the kind with no power cords
attached! :)

Your last suggestion about the four post in the yard, may be genius???

Where were you planning on storing your boat anyway? Outside, or in the
Garage? I don't know whether it is a good idea to store in the sun
which will cause UV damage eventually. And especially if it is always
stored in the same position. The best idea is clean out the garage so
that you can get the boat in there, and then have a garage sale for all
that good stuff you won't be needing now like lawn mowers and snow
blowers. Take the extra windfall of cash and buy the two wetsuits, and
go kayaking. The lawn can wait, if the neighbors don't like the long
grass, tell them they are welcome to mow it for you! Regarding snow, It
will melt off the drive come Spring! :) TnT

On 8-Apr-2005, frtzw906 wrote:

I decided that wing-nuts were what were
required for the u-bolts -- another trip to the hardware store...

Ditto TnT's comments on nylock bolts.

what's the best glue for attaching foam rubber to wood?

Contact cement. Not the water-based kind (LePage's green label)
as it isn't very good in the rain. Go with the stinky, solvent-based
kind (red label). You'll need a can, not a tube.

Mike

On 9-Apr-2005, "Michael Daly" wrote:

Ditto TnT's comments on nylock bolts.

Duh... make that nylock _nuts_.

Mike

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:10:51 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

On 9-Apr-2005, "Michael Daly" wrote:

Ditto TnT's comments on nylock bolts.

Duh... make that nylock _nuts_.

Shucks. I was wondering exactly what those bolts would look like.

Galen Hekhuis NpD, JFR, GWA
Illiterate? Write for FREE help

On Sat, 09 Apr 2005 23:12:50 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
wrote:

On Sat, 9 Apr 2005 23:10:51 GMT, "Michael Daly"
wrote:

On 9-Apr-2005, "Michael Daly" wrote:

Ditto TnT's comments on nylock bolts.

Duh... make that nylock _nuts_.

Shucks. I was wondering exactly what those bolts would look like.

I vaguely remember seeing bolts with a nylon lock thing.

Instead of the ring of soft nylon that fills into the threads, they
had a strip of the same nylon running lengthwise on one side.

Can't remember if they were off the shelf or custom made.

Happy trails,
Gary (net.yogi.bear)
--
At the 51st percentile of ursine intelligence

Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA
Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom