On 14-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

First I rejected a number of boats out of hand because I wasn't
comfortable with the cockpit. These boats were only sat in and not
demoed: Lincoln Isle au Haut and Eggmoggin both felt that the thigh
braces were pushing my legs down straighter than I would be
comfortable with over a long period of time.

Demo the kayaks and rent them for a weekend before making this decision.
(actually, rent before you buy _any_ kayak and make sure you test it
in realistic conditions - wind, waves, etc - before buying).

It may be that you'll find them comfortable. The seat is critical in
this case - if the seat provides good support, you'll be comfortable
regardless of leg position.

Only if you are sitting with the legs so straight that you are paddling
with tight hamstrings and such will the kayak always be uncomfortable.
In such a situation, stretching can help, but it shouldn't be that
tight.

A boat whose cockpit I did
not like but actually demoed anyway was the WS Tempest Pro. I liked
the way the boat handled in the water but felt both the Hip and thigh
braces constricting. ( I'm going back next week to try again with the
hip braces and thigh supports removed.)

This tells me that there's something wrong with your trials! This kayak
has one of the best cockpits out there. The seat is fully adjustable,
as are the thigh hooks. Try again, but get the dealer to set it up
for you. I would never consider a kayak without good thigh/knee braces
as removing them means losing some of your control on the kayak.

I'ts obvious to me that I like
a long or keyhole type of cockpit with a moderately high deck so that
my legs can have a decent amount of bend in them.)

I'll just point out that advanced paddlers tend to move in exactly the
opposite direction - to smaller cockpits with lower decks to get better
control. Again - it's the seat that makes the difference, not the
leg bend. A proper seat is more important than anything else.

Now to boats that
actually got wet and one that got me wet! CD Caribou S in glass: Wow
terrific hull speed, great initial stability even when tipping back
and forth on the primary chines. Great tracker and moderately
manuverable given that I wasn't willing to edge the boat more than
the first chine.

I know more than a few folks that consider this kayak a mediocre boat.
It does everything well, but nothing excellent. Nonetheless, those
who like it tend to love it.

Next the CD Gulfstream. Wow whats not to like: tracks great,
very stable but easy to go on edge and turn. Boat was too wide for me.
Would need to pack out the cockpit too get a close in feel.

Never dismiss a kayak because of the seat being too wide as it's easy
to add good padding. That padding can be shaped to provide even better
control than the basic seat provides.

Impex
Susquehanna:

Before you get excited about Impex and a few other similar kayaks,
push on the hull with your finger and compare that to other kayaks.
These are lightly built kayaks and that's why the price is lower.

a ND Romany Explorer. All I could tell was I liked it, into the wind
or with the wind behind me, turning, didn't seem to weather cock at
all, good hull speed,

The Explorer is everything _except_ a fast kayak. One of the best all-
round kayaks out there. Check out the Boreal Designs Ellemere as well
if you like the Explorer.

So where I sit now it's either the Caribou S, a smaller
Gulfstream if that exists

Slipstream - but that may be tippy for someone your size. There's also
an Andromeda, but I found that to be a dreadful kayak.

Try the Skerray - I find it roughly similar to a Gulfstream based on a
short paddle. John F. will no doubt be able to point out the differences
much better than I. However, I think the Skerray is worth checking out
if you like the Gulfstream.

Mike

"Michael Daly" wrote in
:


The Explorer is everything _except_ a fast kayak. One of the best all-
round kayaks out there. Check out the Boreal Designs Ellemere as well
if you like the Explorer.

I've heard many compare the Ellsemere to the Caribou too. It has an
aggressively molded seat so if it fits the shape of your butt it's going to
be real comfortable.

So where I sit now it's either the Caribou S, a smaller
Gulfstream if that exists

Slipstream - but that may be tippy for someone your size. There's also
an Andromeda, but I found that to be a dreadful kayak.

At a symposium last year a few people were talking about the Andromeda and
someone said that even Current Designs admits the Andromeda was a mistake.

Try the Skerray - I find it roughly similar to a Gulfstream based on a
short paddle. John F. will no doubt be able to point out the differences
much better than I. However, I think the Skerray is worth checking out
if you like the Gulfstream.

Doh! Why didn't I think of the Skerray? Perhaps because mine has a Ocean
cockpit that I knew he wouldn't like. The Skerray likely would be a good
one to try. It's got real nice initial stability, is very responsive but a
bit faster than a Romany or Avocet. I've had mine for 6 years or so and
have since built two higher performance boats. Every once in awhile I think
about selling the Skerray but then I get in an paddle it and get reminded
how much fun that boat is to paddle.

Hey

John Fereira wrote:
At a symposium last year a few people were talking about the Andromeda and
someone said that even Current Designs admits the Andromeda was a mistake.

I'm curious. Could you give us some details on the problems with the
Andromeda? I've noticed that the boat has an exceptional large amount
of rocker. Perhaps that's what Hutchinson considers a romantic boat.

Paddler - Jan/Feb 2002:

Paddler: What's the best new technological innovation in the sport?

Hutchinson: There haven't really been any in the last ten years. It's
a shame about boat designs, though. A lot of the new boats are
functional - they'll all float - but they look like a bucket of
squashed frogs. It seems the designers have no romance in their soul
at all.

--
Peter Unold- http://www.unold.dk/paddling

On 15-Apr-2004, Peter Unold wrote:

I'm curious. Could you give us some details on the problems with the
Andromeda? I've noticed that the boat has an exceptional large amount
of rocker. Perhaps that's what Hutchinson considers a romantic boat.

If it has a lot of rocker, I didn't notice it in paddling. That kayak
is very tippy and very unresponsive. I felt like I was sitting inside
a log. If you're going to make a kayak tippy, you've got to give me
something in return - like handling. The Andromeda is one of the lamest
Kayaks I've ever paddled. They made it long, but it isn't particularly
fast. Secondary stability feels like its barely there. Mediocre response
to carving.

Before it was released, Mike Henderson of Current Designs told me about
this great new kayak they were developing. Long and fast, responsive
etc. I looked forward to paddling it and it was a big disappointment.
It took the dealer over a year to sell the one I test paddled. I'm
sure you can find folks who like the Andromeda, but with so many
good kayaks on the market, get something else.

Mike

Hi

"Michael Daly" wrote:
If it has a lot of rocker, I didn't notice it in paddling. That kayak
is very tippy and very unresponsive.

I got the numbers from the SK review:
Length: 5.26m
Waterline length with 68kg paddler: 4.19m

That's one rockered boat.

[...]
The Andromeda is one of the lamest Kayaks I've ever paddled.
Puts the SK reviews in a different perspective...

--
Peter Unold- http://www.unold.dk/paddling

Peter Unold wrote in
:

Hey

John Fereira wrote:
At a symposium last year a few people were talking about the Andromeda
and someone said that even Current Designs admits the Andromeda was a
mistake.

I'm curious. Could you give us some details on the problems with the
Andromeda?

I've never paddled one. I'm just reporting what I heard others say about it.

I've noticed that the boat has an exceptional large amount
of rocker. Perhaps that's what Hutchinson considers a romantic boat.

Hard to say. My take on the answer below is that his romance analogy was
more in reference to how a boat looked (i.e. whether it had sexy lines) and
really nothing to do with how much rocker it had.

Paddler - Jan/Feb 2002:

Paddler: What's the best new technological innovation in the sport?

Hutchinson: There haven't really been any in the last ten years. It's
a shame about boat designs, though. A lot of the new boats are
functional - they'll all float - but they look like a bucket of
squashed frogs. It seems the designers have no romance in their soul
at all.

John Fereira wrote in message ...
"Michael Daly" wrote in
:


The Explorer is everything _except_ a fast kayak. One of the best all-
round kayaks out there. Check out the Boreal Designs Ellemere as well
if you like the Explorer.

I've heard many compare the Ellsemere to the Caribou too. It has an
aggressively molded seat so if it fits the shape of your butt it's going to
be real comfortable.
I found a dealer in Plymouth, MA who has Ellsemere and Surge Marine.
His demo spot is on a large inland lake. Patriots's Day in MA there
were up to 40 mi/hr gusts and strong chop on the lake. I asked the
dealer which boat was more stable and when he replied Surge decided to
demo it even though I had come down for the Ellesmere. The dock and
lake were roiling and I had not a little fear in my heart when I
pulled away. The Surge knifed through the chop nicely and didn't seem
to mind the wind. I wasn't brave enough to try edging under the
conditions and after less than 15 backed it into the dock and was
happy to be off the water. While I announced to my host that I didn't
think I was up for any more demoing today he suggested I at least sit
in the Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking? Speaking of seats, the next day I spent an hour
in a WS Tempest 170 pro. More tractable conditions up to 20 Mi /hr
gusts and some current on the Charles river. I found the seat and
outfitting to be most impressive and comfortable. the boat however was
more affected by wind than I would have liked and I found myself
employing the skeg a lot going downwind and even needed it going
upwind occassionally. Stability seemed excellent . Well I won't buy a
boat just because I like the seat, but I won't buy a boat either which
has a seat I hate. I'm thinking now that maybe I'd be better off
spending all this time demoing other boats on paddling my own boat and
trying to improve my skills. After all how can you appreciate what a
performance boat has to offer if you're not willing to push it. thanks
to all who have responded. I value your opinions.----Cheers Gene
So where I sit now it's either the Caribou S, a smaller
Gulfstream if that exists

Slipstream - but that may be tippy for someone your size. There's also
an Andromeda, but I found that to be a dreadful kayak.

At a symposium last year a few people were talking about the Andromeda and
someone said that even Current Designs admits the Andromeda was a mistake.

Try the Skerray - I find it roughly similar to a Gulfstream based on a
short paddle. John F. will no doubt be able to point out the differences
much better than I. However, I think the Skerray is worth checking out
if you like the Gulfstream.

Doh! Why didn't I think of the Skerray? Perhaps because mine has a Ocean
cockpit that I knew he wouldn't like. The Skerray likely would be a good
one to try. It's got real nice initial stability, is very responsive but a
bit faster than a Romany or Avocet. I've had mine for 6 years or so and
have since built two higher performance boats. Every once in awhile I think
about selling the Skerray but then I get in an paddle it and get reminded
how much fun that boat is to paddle.

On 24-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking?

For me, it's the most comfortable seat I've ever sat in.

Sounds like you're too big for the seat. Either that or you're pushing
your hips forward. Remember that proper paddling posture means that
you spine is relatively straight and your shoulders are above or barely
forward of your hips. No slouching and no leaning against the backrest.

A friend of mine ordered an Ellesmere with a bumpless seat. Boreal Designs
simply filled the mold at the front and made a seat that has the curves
everywhere but with the bump flattened out.

Mike

Yeah, the Ellesmere seat was a killer for me as well. So, I yanked it out
and essentially duplicated the seat in minicell foam leaving the hump only
way forward. Now, it's very comfortable and I really enjoy the boat.



"Michael Daly" wrote in message
...
On 24-Apr-2004, (Gene Cosloy) wrote:

Ellesmere. That was enough for me, unless I was interested in
strong prostate stimulation along with my paddling, I did not like
that seat with the raised prostate bumb in the middle. What were those
Quebec folks thinking?

For me, it's the most comfortable seat I've ever sat in.

Sounds like you're too big for the seat. Either that or you're pushing
your hips forward. Remember that proper paddling posture means that
you spine is relatively straight and your shoulders are above or barely
forward of your hips. No slouching and no leaning against the backrest.

A friend of mine ordered an Ellesmere with a bumpless seat. Boreal
Designs
simply filled the mold at the front and made a seat that has the curves
everywhere but with the bump flattened out.

Mike

"news" wrote in
:

Yeah, the Ellesmere seat was a killer for me as well. So, I yanked it
out and essentially duplicated the seat in minicell foam leaving the
hump only way forward. Now, it's very comfortable and I really enjoy
the boat.

Interesting idea. I've seen a couple of articles around on how to build a
fiberglass seat (Ross Liedy's site had a good description). One could make
a mould from the original seat, modify it slightly so that it doesn't have
that bump, and then lay up a new seat.

One of the articles I read described creating the mold for a seat by sitting
in a box of sand covered with thin plastic. That way you can create a seat
that fits your body perfectly.