"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.


Is that your final answer?

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.

Is that your final answer?

What is this, "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"?

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

A proper brig is a two masted vessel with square sails on the fore
mast and on the aft mast. It's a brigantine if there are square
sails only on the fore mast.

The word "brig" is *also* sometimes used as short for a brigantine.
I know of no evidence to support your allegation that this shortening
is "lubberly". But it does mean that when you use the term "brig"
without further clarification, it is ambiguous.

The two TSYT ships (if you can be bothered to look them up) carry square
sails on both masts and are therefore proper brigs and *not* brigantines.

Technically, I suppose, it is wrong to call them "ships".

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has a
link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship
with fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the
word 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has
a link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel, square-rigged
but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage dictionary
(so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has a link to
brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel, square-rigged
but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

There's little point in quoting references on the internet, most of them are
plagiarised from other sources (for example, Google any of the phrases that
support the above arguments, such as "A two-masted sailing ship,
square-rigged on both masts." or "a two-Masted vessel with both masts square
rigged. On the sternmost mast, the main mast, there is also a gaff sail.")

I'm not convinced that there's a hard and fast definition. Sailing vessels
are constantly evolving so they make the most of the extant sailing
conditions, so having a brig (square rigged only) and adding a fore and aft
sail (it's still a brig) seems perfectly reasonable.

Alisdair

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship
with fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the
word 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has
a link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel, square-rigged
but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html


http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

Perhaps my snipping is innacurate, or perhaps you are trolling (and no,
I am not referring to piscatorial activities) but it seems to me that
the three links you have given all have seperate definitions for "Brig",
and none of them suggest that it is merely "a lubberly shortening of the
word 'brigantine' ".

This has little to do with whether the Trust is correct to sell its vessel.

Andy

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Andy Champ" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship
with fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of
the word 'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it
has a link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy

Wrong! Let me repeat. A brigantine is a two masted vessel,
square-rigged but with fore and aft mainsail.
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/d.../d0002703.html
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/brigantine

http://www.geocities.com/cjstein_2000/dictionary.html#B

note: a gaff sail is a fore and aft sail.

Wilbur Hubbard

Perhaps my snipping is innacurate, or perhaps you are trolling (and
no, I am not referring to piscatorial activities) but it seems to me
that the three links you have given all have seperate definitions for
"Brig", and none of them suggest that it is merely "a lubberly
shortening of the word 'brigantine' ".

This has little to do with whether the Trust is correct to sell its
vessel.

Andy

I Googled some pics of the Trust's brigs (they are brigs according to
definition because the pictures showed they are both square-rigged on
both masts with no fore-and-aft sails on the masts) and they are nice
looking boats. But, whose to say the Trust doesn't have good reason to
sell whatever boats they want to sell

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I Googled some pics of the Trust's brigs (they are brigs according to
definition because the pictures showed they are both square-rigged on
both masts with no fore-and-aft sails on the masts) and they are nice
looking boats.

Must try harder on the old observational skills, matey.

They *do* have a fore-and-aft sail on the after mast. It seems to be
a common feature of virtualy all sizeable vessels of this era that at
least the after mast always has at least one gaff sail. One must
presume there must have been a technical reason for this.

The distinction between brig and brigantine is simply whether the
after mast is *exclusively* fore-and-aft or *also* has square sails.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I Googled some pics of the Trust's brigs (they are brigs according to
definition because the pictures showed they are both square-rigged on
both masts with no fore-and-aft sails on the masts) and they are nice
looking boats.

Must try harder on the old observational skills, matey.

They *do* have a fore-and-aft sail on the after mast. It seems to be
a common feature of virtualy all sizeable vessels of this era that at
least the after mast always has at least one gaff sail. One must
presume there must have been a technical reason for this.

The distinction between brig and brigantine is simply whether the
after mast is *exclusively* fore-and-aft or *also* has square sails.


The photos I Googled showed both of them sailing together and neither on
had a fore and aft sail on the mainmast. Both masts were square-rigged
from top to bottom.

http://www.tallshipsyouthtrust.net/d...t=693&doc=6823

This means they are rightly called 'brigs.' If they were fitted with a
gaff mainsail at some time earlier or later then they should be called
'brigantines.' See the link with illustrations I posted further up this
thread.

I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard