Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.

On 2007-08-23 09:33:08 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.) Just like the
brig/brigantine distinction, a barque is a three-masted ship
square-rigged on the main and fore, while a barquentine is only
square-rigged on the fore.

Someone once told me that the boat name and the term for a prison were
etymologically related, maybe from using ship hulks for prisons, but I
can't find any verification of that.

-D

Dave wrote:

On 2007-08-23 09:33:08 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade. It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.
I gather the distinction between that and a brigantine is that the
schooner has no square sails at all.

Would you have a ketch/yawl with square sails?

Ronald Raygun wrote:
Dave wrote:

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.

ISTR that http://www.mari-cha4.com/ causes some confusion in that it's
described as a schooner because although both masts are the same
*length*, the foremast has slightly greater rake, so is *lower*....

BICBW, Alan
--
99 Ducati 748BP, 95 Ducati 600SS, 81 Guzzi Monza, 74 MV Agusta 350
"Ride to Work, Work to Ride" SI# 7.067 DoD#1930 PGP Key 0xBDED56C5

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:

On 2007-08-23 09:33:08 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.
I gather the distinction between that and a brigantine is that the
schooner has no square sails at all.

Would you have a ketch/yawl with square sails?


http://www.sailbaltimore.org/shiptypes.htm

On 2007-08-23 10:33:26 -0700, Ronald Raygun
said:

Dave wrote:
Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after. If the forward mast is taller it's a ketch. (Unless the mizzen
is behind the rudder post, then it's a yawl.)

If the fore mast is shorter than the main it could also be a schooner.
I gather the distinction between that and a brigantine is that the
schooner has no square sails at all.

Oh! I was going to mention schooners, too. A schooner can have a square
topsail, but I guess it isn't a schooner any more if it has a square
course.

Now on to xebecs, carracks, smacks, and hoys..

-D

On 23 Aug, 17:56, Dave wrote:

Yep, a brig is a two-master with the forward mast shorter than the
after.

That's a schooner.

Or can be. All these terms - brig, brigantine, schooner, ship, barque
and so on - were pretty flexible, and meant little more than what the
person using them meant.

Ian

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's
a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.


Is that your final answer?

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

"Ronald Raygun" wrote in message
...
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

A 'brig' is the term used for a prison. You know like, "Throw the
******* into the brig!" Buck up there, man! Call a spade a spade.
It's a 'brigantine.'

Not so. They are brigs (square rigged on both masts). Brigantines
are square rigged only on the fore mast.

That's what it says on Wikipeia at any rate, which cannot always be
taken for gospel, but ought to be good enough for you.

Is that your final answer?

What is this, "Who Wants to be a Millionaire"?

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

A proper brig is a two masted vessel with square sails on the fore
mast and on the aft mast. It's a brigantine if there are square
sails only on the fore mast.

The word "brig" is *also* sometimes used as short for a brigantine.
I know of no evidence to support your allegation that this shortening
is "lubberly". But it does mean that when you use the term "brig"
without further clarification, it is ambiguous.

The two TSYT ships (if you can be bothered to look them up) carry square
sails on both masts and are therefore proper brigs and *not* brigantines.

Technically, I suppose, it is wrong to call them "ships".

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

I hope not because a brigantine is a two-masted, square-rigged ship with
fore and aft mainsail. A 'brig' is a lubberly shortening of the word
'brigantine.'

Wilbur Hubbard

http://www.answers.com/brig&r=67

Note that the first definition is from the *American* heritage
dictionary (so this is not your language being differnt!), and it has a
link to brigantine with the description of the different rig.

Andy