On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Boater" wrote in message
...
Eisboch wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
news
I'm getting pretty good at picking up speed on the downgrade and letting
it
bleed off on the upgrade. Works pretty well, lets me stay in overdrive,
and
saves gas.

I just miss the manual tranny.


With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed to tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic, designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.

Eisboch
I have the same car. I tow in 4th, not in OD, and when necessary, I
downshift to third or lower. Much easier on the transmission.




You and JohnH share the same taste in a vehicle?

Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I guarantee that is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not designed to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for himself. A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch


Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer which is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill if I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.

Of course, there are vehicles which would probably do a nicer job. But I
wasn't in the mood to trade in the 4Runner on something that I didn't
really need.
--
A Harry Krause truism:

"It's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus!"
[A Narcissistic Hypocrite]

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed to tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic, designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.



Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not designed to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for himself. A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch





Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer which is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill if I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.


But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice or more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode prevents the
transmission from "hunting".

Eisboch

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
.. .

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed to tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic, designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.



Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not designed to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for himself. A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch





Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer which is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill if I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.


But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

Yes! I know what I *should* do, but that isn't what I *want* to do. Like I
say, if I leave it in 4th, not overdrive, it does fine. That's what the
book says to do.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice or more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode prevents the
transmission from "hunting".

4th gear and staying out of cruise control does that for me. I should have
held out for your van. No, no, I'm happy with what I've got.

We're taking our friends from Holland over to West Virginia for some
camping next week. We'll be staying at the north end of the Monongahela
National Forest. Absolutely beautiful country.

Eisboch


--
A Harry Krause truism:

"It's not a *baby* kicking, beautiful bride, it's just a fetus!"
[A Narcissistic Hypocrite]

"JohnH" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"JohnH" wrote in message
. ..

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed to
tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic,
designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.



Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not designed
to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for himself.
A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch





Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer which
is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill if
I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.


But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

Yes! I know what I *should* do, but that isn't what I *want* to do. Like I
say, if I leave it in 4th, not overdrive, it does fine. That's what the
book says to do.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice or
more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode prevents
the
transmission from "hunting".

4th gear and staying out of cruise control does that for me. I should have
held out for your van. No, no, I'm happy with what I've got.

We're taking our friends from Holland over to West Virginia for some
camping next week. We'll be staying at the north end of the Monongahela
National Forest. Absolutely beautiful country.

Eisboch


Need someone to show you how to drive that 4Runner?
Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb load
last year.

"Don White" wrote in message
...



Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.


Ford, GM and Chrysler used to have auto transmissions in their full sized,
heavy duty trucks (250 and 2500 series and up) that had a button to simply
disengage overdrive for towing purposes. That wasn't ideal, but it helped.

Now-a-days GM uses the Allison transmission in their 2500 series. Beautiful
transmission for towing or hauling a heavy rig.
Ford came out with it's "Torqueshift" transmission that acts very similarly
to the Allison. Both do more than simply disengaging overdrive. They both
change the shiftpoints, holding the vehicle in gears longer under heavy load
and provide significant engine braking when slowing down. Ford's
transmission uses a different gear set on downshifts than it does on
upshifts.

When towing, these transmissions make the vehicles much more safe and
controllable and also reduce strain on the engines.

Eisboch

On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:27:52 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
.. .



Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.


Ford, GM and Chrysler used to have auto transmissions in their full sized,
heavy duty trucks (250 and 2500 series and up) that had a button to simply
disengage overdrive for towing purposes. That wasn't ideal, but it helped.

Now-a-days GM uses the Allison transmission in their 2500 series. Beautiful
transmission for towing or hauling a heavy rig.
Ford came out with it's "Torqueshift" transmission that acts very similarly
to the Allison. Both do more than simply disengaging overdrive. They both
change the shiftpoints, holding the vehicle in gears longer under heavy load
and provide significant engine braking when slowing down. Ford's
transmission uses a different gear set on downshifts than it does on
upshifts.

When towing, these transmissions make the vehicles much more safe and
controllable and also reduce strain on the engines.

Let me tell you - that is a BIG difference between the heavier duty
pickups and the POS F-150 that I bought.

BIG difference.

My truck is a nice truck - all leather, options up the wazoo but it
just doesn't tow for crap. Even with the 5.4.

I've revised my opinion - if your going to tow anything over 2,500
lbs, step up to the 3/4 or 1 ton class pickup.

Once I get back in decent shape, I'm looking for a good used F-250
diesel to tow my boats with.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

"Tom Francis - SWSports" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 02:27:52 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:


"Don White" wrote in message
. ..



Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.


Ford, GM and Chrysler used to have auto transmissions in their full sized,
heavy duty trucks (250 and 2500 series and up) that had a button to simply
disengage overdrive for towing purposes. That wasn't ideal, but it
helped.

Now-a-days GM uses the Allison transmission in their 2500 series.
Beautiful
transmission for towing or hauling a heavy rig.
Ford came out with it's "Torqueshift" transmission that acts very
similarly
to the Allison. Both do more than simply disengaging overdrive. They
both
change the shiftpoints, holding the vehicle in gears longer under heavy
load
and provide significant engine braking when slowing down. Ford's
transmission uses a different gear set on downshifts than it does on
upshifts.

When towing, these transmissions make the vehicles much more safe and
controllable and also reduce strain on the engines.

Let me tell you - that is a BIG difference between the heavier duty
pickups and the POS F-150 that I bought.

BIG difference.

My truck is a nice truck - all leather, options up the wazoo but it
just doesn't tow for crap. Even with the 5.4.

I've revised my opinion - if your going to tow anything over 2,500
lbs, step up to the 3/4 or 1 ton class pickup.

Once I get back in decent shape, I'm looking for a good used F-250
diesel to tow my boats with.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)


I am finding that the F-250 Superduty with the same engine you have (the
5.4L) is more than adequate for towing, but I think it is more due to the
TorqueShift transmission. The 5.4L is not a powerhouse like the diesel I
had, but you don't need it. The transmission in tow/haul mode picks the
correct gear, holds it as required under load, and makes towing a breeze.
In other words, it acts like a truck. It does not prevent going into
overdrive, although it rarely shifts into OD when towing, unless on the
straight and level and above about 65 mph. I love how it downshifts
through the gears when slowing down, very much like the Allison
transmission.

If you like Fords (as I do), you might want to try out a gasser F-250
before spending the extra bucks for the diesel.
The F-150's, last I knew, do not come with the TorqueShift transmission.
They have a "tow/haul/ mode, but it's not the same. I believe the light
duty F-150 trucks use the standard, 5 speed electronically controlled
transmission, the same one used in Mrs. E's Navigator. My son has an '08
F-150. Both his truck and Mrs. E's '08 Navigator drive and shift the same
way .... more like a car. Works fine, but for towing the TS is better.

Another benefit is this: Ford originally designed the TorqueShift
transmission for use in their diesel powered pickups in order to handle the
additional low end torque. They worked so well, Ford decided to also use
them in the rest of the SuperDuty series, including the gas engines. It
means you have a very durable and heavy duty transmission .... an important
consideration if you intend to tow much.

Eisboch

Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed to
tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic,
designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.


Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not designed
to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for himself.
A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch



Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer which
is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill if
I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.

But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

Yes! I know what I *should* do, but that isn't what I *want* to do. Like I
say, if I leave it in 4th, not overdrive, it does fine. That's what the
book says to do.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice or
more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode prevents
the
transmission from "hunting".
4th gear and staying out of cruise control does that for me. I should have
held out for your van. No, no, I'm happy with what I've got.

We're taking our friends from Holland over to West Virginia for some
camping next week. We'll be staying at the north end of the Monongahela
National Forest. Absolutely beautiful country.
Eisboch


Need someone to show you how to drive that 4Runner?
Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto transmission
lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb load
last year.


Even my car can and has towed 2300 lbs. It's not a big deal.

jim wrote:
Don White wrote:
"JohnH" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 20:38:45 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"JohnH" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:27:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

With all due respect, what you are missing is a vehicle designed
to tow
something.

You don't want to be in overdrive while towing. An automatic,
designed
for towing applications, will figure it out for you.


Anyway, the 4Runner may be fine for short distance and light load
occasional towing, but not for a travel trailer camper.
JohnH just bought a camper. Even though his camper/trailer is
light-weight, the 4Runner isn't an ideal tow vehicle for it.
The problem is the wind resistance, not the weight, and I
guarantee that
is
what he is complaining about.

The 4Runner is a very nice, very light duty vehicle. It's not
designed to
pull high area resistance trailers down the interstate.

Tried to tell him, but he won't listen, so he has to learn for
himself. A
manual transmission will do zip for him.

Eisboch



Oh horse puckey. The 4Runner does a great job of towing a trailer
which is
about half its towing capacity. It wants to downshift going uphill
if I'm
in overdrive. That may be due to wind resistance.

But isn't that what you are complaining about? It should shift out of
overdrive. You shouldn't be in overdrive climbing a hill and
pulling the
trailer anyway. The overdrive gear is wimpy to begin with, plus you
are
lugging the engine. That's what tow/haul is all about in a tow
vehicle
automatic. Ideally, you should be able to lock overdrive out or, use
tow/haul, if equipped.

Yes! I know what I *should* do, but that isn't what I *want* to do.
Like I
say, if I leave it in 4th, not overdrive, it does fine. That's what the
book says to do.

If it makes you feel better, my F-250 Superduty, rated to tow twice
or more
the weight of your 4runner automatically shifts out of overdrive and
sometimes unlocks the converter pulling an empty, 3000 lb GVW Haulmark
trailer that probably weighs less than 1000 lbs empty. It's the
frontal
area wind resistance that causes the downshifts. Tow/Haul mode
prevents the
transmission from "hunting".
4th gear and staying out of cruise control does that for me. I should
have
held out for your van. No, no, I'm happy with what I've got.

We're taking our friends from Holland over to West Virginia for some
camping next week. We'll be staying at the north end of the Monongahela
National Forest. Absolutely beautiful country.
Eisboch


Need someone to show you how to drive that 4Runner?
Even my little Ranger 4x2 had a tow mode button in the auto
transmission lever.
I used it all the way on my 5000 kilometer round trip towing a 2330 lb
load last year.

Even my car can and has towed 2300 lbs. It's not a big deal.

Ask Don how he stops the little Ranger 4x2 and the 2300 lb load. I would
bet that the little itty bitty transmission in that little Ranger 4x2 is
about at it's end of life.

"BAR" wrote in message
...

jim wrote:

Even my car can and has towed 2300 lbs. It's not a big deal.


Ask Don how he stops the little Ranger 4x2 and the 2300 lb load. I would
bet that the little itty bitty transmission in that little Ranger 4x2 is
about at it's end of life.



I don't know about that. The Ranger is a tough little truck for it's size
and should handle that weight without any problems.
It uses a Mazda transmission that has been well proven.

I towed a car trailer with my John Deere tractor and backhoe attachment on
it a few miles to my daughter's house with the Ranger I had. The tractor
probably weighs close to 4000 lbs ... maybe more and the trailer was about
1400 lbs. I wouldn't recommend this, nor would I do it again (one of the
reasons I got the F-250 SuperDuty), but I was amazed at how well the little
truck handled it.

I was also amazed that the town cop that watched by pass by him didn't stop
me. The whole setup looks ridiculous with the trailer and tractor about
twice the size of the little truck. But ... he just stared and let me go
by.

Eisboch