Holy shit!
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:54:53 -0400, "Raphael"
wrote:


"John H." wrote in message
.. .
Gone four days and back to 853 messages. Over 300 from one individual.

Had a great time at Virginia Beach. Saw lots of boats. Will post pictures
of some when I get the chance.

Air conditioner kept popping the circuit breaker when the temp was
hovering
around 95 yesterday.

Anyone know anything about air conditioners?
--
John H.

Seems to me that when you first had this problem we talked about undersized
extension cords, undersized house wiring, defective breaker in RV, and low
voltage. As I recall, your AC started working and the issue was dropped.
Someone said head pressure will increase as ambient temp increases. That's
true. So now you have at least 5 potential reasons why you are popping the
breaker in the RV. The reason the breaker popped at the campground may be
different than why it popped at your house, but let's assume the reason is
the same.

I think I have laid out the situation properly. If not, correct me.

I know there are at least 4 or 5 guys here that would be able to put you on
the right track.

Would you like some help to resolve the problem?



The problem may have been due to the heat, but I don't remember the
temperature when I first had the problem. Most folks thought the problem
then was caused by having the trailer connected to house wiring (20 amp).
But this time I was connected to 30 amp. I'm thinking that outside temp may
be the common theme to both problems.

Sure!
--
John H.

Holy shit!
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:15:01 -0400, John H.
wrote:

Unlike some other folks, I have no problem with being wrong. If the
problem reoccurs, I'll let you know.

As others have mentioned, the two most likely causes are either low
voltage or insufficient anti-cycling delay in the condenser
controller.

Excessive cycling can be caused by poor air flow among other things -
clogged filter, fan speed too low, etc.

Holy shit!
 

Don White wrote:
"A Boater" wrote in message
...

Ohmigod! Don's been *plonked* by JustWaitaLoogy!

The horror of it.

Don...will you require therapy for this?

:)



An 18 pack of Labatt Blue should help me cope with this disaster.




One Corona with lime would do it for me.

Holy shit!
 

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:32:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
m...
Temp does have something to do with it. At higher outside temps ac
runs higher pressures. Takes more current to start the compressor. AC
copmpressors have to start under a load so they need a lot of current
initially. First make sure you have the correct circuit breaker. Then
replace if it's old it cause when they get old they blow at lower than
rated. Voltage brownout will do it as well. Check and tighten all the
connections. None of that works call the service guy cause you're
probably not qualified to go any deeper.

Exactly. The problem with these rigs when used in travel trailers is
the poor insulation of the trailer itself. On hot days the temperature
can rise back up over the thermostat setpoint before the head pressure
bleeds off.

But, I am willing to be his problem was low RV park voltage.

Eisboch
I'm hoping you're correct!

But, I'll probably never know for sure. Maybe the dealer will find a
bad capacitor or something. But I'm going to change the circuit
breaker first.
Easter egg hunting is not a good troubleshooting method, and it could get
costly.

You need a good multimeter that is capable of reading at least 30 amps AC
and AC volts. Keep in mind amps are read in series. Meaning you have to
break open a circuit or use a clamp on pickup or if the Air Conditioner
unit plugs into an outlet, instead of being hardwired, you can use an
adapter with the clamp on pickup or a killowatt type of device to take
readings.



Heh .... I drafted a post for John, describing the old Navy "Easter Egging"
technique of troubleshooting,
and recommended he do a more logical series of tests, but then I realized
that people need to do what they need to do, so I deleted the post.

I doubt very much his circuit breaker is bad. Could be wrong, but there are
other things I'd check first.

But, I have a feeling he's going to claim the problem as being fixed after
he replaces it. For a while. Then, sometime in the future when conditions
are similar to that he wrote about, the problem will return.

Eisboch


Give me a break! I don't usually make a lot of claims that aren't
true. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

The new circuit breaker costs $12 bucks. I won't know if that's the
problem until we get another 95 degree day. If the problem returns,
then I'll know it wasn't the circuit breaker.

Unlike some other folks, I have no problem with being wrong. If the
problem reoccurs, I'll let you know.

I think he meant because of cooler weather, you will think it is cured.

Holy shit!
 

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:32:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
m...
Temp does have something to do with it. At higher outside temps
ac runs higher pressures. Takes more current to start the
compressor. AC copmpressors have to start under a load so they
need a lot of current initially. First make sure you have the
correct circuit breaker. Then replace if it's old it cause when
they get old they blow at lower than rated. Voltage brownout
will do it as well. Check and tighten all the connections. None
of that works call the service guy cause you're probably not
qualified to go any deeper.

Exactly. The problem with these rigs when used in travel trailers
is the poor insulation of the trailer itself. On hot days the
temperature can rise back up over the thermostat setpoint before
the head pressure bleeds off.

But, I am willing to be his problem was low RV park voltage.

Eisboch
I'm hoping you're correct!

But, I'll probably never know for sure. Maybe the dealer will find a
bad capacitor or something. But I'm going to change the circuit
breaker first.
Easter egg hunting is not a good troubleshooting method, and it
could get costly.

You need a good multimeter that is capable of reading at least 30
amps AC and AC volts. Keep in mind amps are read in series. Meaning
you have to break open a circuit or use a clamp on pickup or if the
Air Conditioner unit plugs into an outlet, instead of being
hardwired, you can use an adapter with the clamp on pickup or a
killowatt type of device to take readings.



Heh .... I drafted a post for John, describing the old Navy "Easter
Egging" technique of troubleshooting,
and recommended he do a more logical series of tests, but then I
realized that people need to do what they need to do, so I deleted
the post.

I doubt very much his circuit breaker is bad. Could be wrong, but
there are other things I'd check first.

But, I have a feeling he's going to claim the problem as being fixed
after he replaces it. For a while. Then, sometime in the future
when conditions are similar to that he wrote about, the problem will
return.

Eisboch

Give me a break! I don't usually make a lot of claims that aren't
true. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

The new circuit breaker costs $12 bucks. I won't know if that's the
problem until we get another 95 degree day. If the problem returns,
then I'll know it wasn't the circuit breaker.
Unlike some other folks, I have no problem with being wrong. If the
problem reoccurs, I'll let you know.

I think he meant because of cooler weather, you will think it is cured.


Herring was an injineeeear but doesn't know anything about electricity?

Holy shit!
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:45:03 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:32:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
m...
Temp does have something to do with it. At higher outside temps ac
runs higher pressures. Takes more current to start the compressor. AC
copmpressors have to start under a load so they need a lot of current
initially. First make sure you have the correct circuit breaker. Then
replace if it's old it cause when they get old they blow at lower than
rated. Voltage brownout will do it as well. Check and tighten all the
connections. None of that works call the service guy cause you're
probably not qualified to go any deeper.

Exactly. The problem with these rigs when used in travel trailers is
the poor insulation of the trailer itself. On hot days the temperature
can rise back up over the thermostat setpoint before the head pressure
bleeds off.

But, I am willing to be his problem was low RV park voltage.

Eisboch
I'm hoping you're correct!

But, I'll probably never know for sure. Maybe the dealer will find a
bad capacitor or something. But I'm going to change the circuit
breaker first.
Easter egg hunting is not a good troubleshooting method, and it could get
costly.

You need a good multimeter that is capable of reading at least 30 amps AC
and AC volts. Keep in mind amps are read in series. Meaning you have to
break open a circuit or use a clamp on pickup or if the Air Conditioner
unit plugs into an outlet, instead of being hardwired, you can use an
adapter with the clamp on pickup or a killowatt type of device to take
readings.



Heh .... I drafted a post for John, describing the old Navy "Easter Egging"
technique of troubleshooting,
and recommended he do a more logical series of tests, but then I realized
that people need to do what they need to do, so I deleted the post.

I doubt very much his circuit breaker is bad. Could be wrong, but there are
other things I'd check first.

But, I have a feeling he's going to claim the problem as being fixed after
he replaces it. For a while. Then, sometime in the future when conditions
are similar to that he wrote about, the problem will return.

Eisboch


Give me a break! I don't usually make a lot of claims that aren't
true. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

The new circuit breaker costs $12 bucks. I won't know if that's the
problem until we get another 95 degree day. If the problem returns,
then I'll know it wasn't the circuit breaker.

Unlike some other folks, I have no problem with being wrong. If the
problem reoccurs, I'll let you know.

I think he meant because of cooler weather, you will think it is cured.

Hopefully, it's straightened out.

I obviously can't test it until I get a 95 degree day with high humidity,
which isn't going to happen until next summer unless I go to Disney World
in December.

Hell, I've been told about 14 things to look for, test, buy or otherwise do
in hopes of fixing the problem. So far I've done three or four. Replacing
the circuit breaker was one of the first things I was told, by several
people, including my BIL who runs an appliance store in Richmond and was on
scene when the problem appeared.


--
John H.

Holy shit!
 

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:54:53 -0400, "Raphael"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
Gone four days and back to 853 messages. Over 300 from one individual.

Had a great time at Virginia Beach. Saw lots of boats. Will post pictures
of some when I get the chance.

Air conditioner kept popping the circuit breaker when the temp was
hovering
around 95 yesterday.

Anyone know anything about air conditioners?
--
John H.
Seems to me that when you first had this problem we talked about undersized
extension cords, undersized house wiring, defective breaker in RV, and low
voltage. As I recall, your AC started working and the issue was dropped.
Someone said head pressure will increase as ambient temp increases. That's
true. So now you have at least 5 potential reasons why you are popping the
breaker in the RV. The reason the breaker popped at the campground may be
different than why it popped at your house, but let's assume the reason is
the same.

I think I have laid out the situation properly. If not, correct me.

I know there are at least 4 or 5 guys here that would be able to put you on
the right track.

Would you like some help to resolve the problem?



The problem may have been due to the heat, but I don't remember the
temperature when I first had the problem. Most folks thought the problem
then was caused by having the trailer connected to house wiring (20 amp).
But this time I was connected to 30 amp. I'm thinking that outside temp may
be the common theme to both problems.

Sure!

John,
A 20 amp circuit when properly installed can handle a 20 amp load, and
a 30 amp circuit can handle a 30 amp load. That doesn't say the source
is providing proper frequency or voltage. What we are thinking here is a
voltage sag for various reasons, or short cycle might have caused higher
current draw due to not enough time for excessive head pressure to bleed
off between cycles. Your AC unit may or may not have built in short
cycle protection or it might not be working. You can test this by
running the AC and quickly shutting it of then on again. There should be
a 3 to 5 minute delay before the compressor starts again. The conditions
that precipitated your failures may not be easy for your dealer to
replicate. He may have to ask you to leave your rig at his service
department for an extended period for troubleshooting, and even then he
might not see the problem if it is caused by a power source.
If I were in your shoes I would take the time to learn about AC wiring
and problem solving. Also an overview of how the air conditioner works
would help you a lot.

Jim/Raphael

Holy shit!
 

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:45:03 -0400, "Reginald P. Smithers III"
wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:32:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
m...
Temp does have something to do with it. At higher outside temps ac
runs higher pressures. Takes more current to start the compressor. AC
copmpressors have to start under a load so they need a lot of current
initially. First make sure you have the correct circuit breaker. Then
replace if it's old it cause when they get old they blow at lower than
rated. Voltage brownout will do it as well. Check and tighten all the
connections. None of that works call the service guy cause you're
probably not qualified to go any deeper.

Exactly. The problem with these rigs when used in travel trailers is
the poor insulation of the trailer itself. On hot days the temperature
can rise back up over the thermostat setpoint before the head pressure
bleeds off.

But, I am willing to be his problem was low RV park voltage.

Eisboch
I'm hoping you're correct!

But, I'll probably never know for sure. Maybe the dealer will find a
bad capacitor or something. But I'm going to change the circuit
breaker first.
Easter egg hunting is not a good troubleshooting method, and it could get
costly.

You need a good multimeter that is capable of reading at least 30 amps AC
and AC volts. Keep in mind amps are read in series. Meaning you have to
break open a circuit or use a clamp on pickup or if the Air Conditioner
unit plugs into an outlet, instead of being hardwired, you can use an
adapter with the clamp on pickup or a killowatt type of device to take
readings.


Heh .... I drafted a post for John, describing the old Navy "Easter Egging"
technique of troubleshooting,
and recommended he do a more logical series of tests, but then I realized
that people need to do what they need to do, so I deleted the post.

I doubt very much his circuit breaker is bad. Could be wrong, but there are
other things I'd check first.

But, I have a feeling he's going to claim the problem as being fixed after
he replaces it. For a while. Then, sometime in the future when conditions
are similar to that he wrote about, the problem will return.

Eisboch

Give me a break! I don't usually make a lot of claims that aren't
true. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

The new circuit breaker costs $12 bucks. I won't know if that's the
problem until we get another 95 degree day. If the problem returns,
then I'll know it wasn't the circuit breaker.

Unlike some other folks, I have no problem with being wrong. If the
problem reoccurs, I'll let you know.
I think he meant because of cooler weather, you will think it is cured.

Hopefully, it's straightened out.

I obviously can't test it until I get a 95 degree day with high humidity,
which isn't going to happen until next summer unless I go to Disney World
in December.

Hell, I've been told about 14 things to look for, test, buy or otherwise do
in hopes of fixing the problem. So far I've done three or four. Replacing
the circuit breaker was one of the first things I was told, by several
people, including my BIL who runs an appliance store in Richmond and was on
scene when the problem appeared.


You won't likely see 95 degrees at Disney in December. In fact 95
Degrees is rare anytime during the year.

Holy shit!
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:54:11 -0400, A Boater wrote:

Reginald P. Smithers III wrote:
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:01:06 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jim" wrote in message
...
John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:32:21 -0400, "Eisboch" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
m...
Temp does have something to do with it. At higher outside temps
ac runs higher pressures. Takes more current to start the
compressor. AC copmpressors have to start under a load so they
need a lot of current initially. First make sure you have the
correct circuit breaker. Then replace if it's old it cause when
they get old they blow at lower than rated. Voltage brownout
will do it as well. Check and tighten all the connections. None
of that works call the service guy cause you're probably not
qualified to go any deeper.

Exactly. The problem with these rigs when used in travel trailers
is the poor insulation of the trailer itself. On hot days the
temperature can rise back up over the thermostat setpoint before
the head pressure bleeds off.

But, I am willing to be his problem was low RV park voltage.

Eisboch
I'm hoping you're correct!

But, I'll probably never know for sure. Maybe the dealer will find a
bad capacitor or something. But I'm going to change the circuit
breaker first.
Easter egg hunting is not a good troubleshooting method, and it
could get costly.

You need a good multimeter that is capable of reading at least 30
amps AC and AC volts. Keep in mind amps are read in series. Meaning
you have to break open a circuit or use a clamp on pickup or if the
Air Conditioner unit plugs into an outlet, instead of being
hardwired, you can use an adapter with the clamp on pickup or a
killowatt type of device to take readings.



Heh .... I drafted a post for John, describing the old Navy "Easter
Egging" technique of troubleshooting,
and recommended he do a more logical series of tests, but then I
realized that people need to do what they need to do, so I deleted
the post.

I doubt very much his circuit breaker is bad. Could be wrong, but
there are other things I'd check first.

But, I have a feeling he's going to claim the problem as being fixed
after he replaces it. For a while. Then, sometime in the future
when conditions are similar to that he wrote about, the problem will
return.

Eisboch

Give me a break! I don't usually make a lot of claims that aren't
true. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else.

The new circuit breaker costs $12 bucks. I won't know if that's the
problem until we get another 95 degree day. If the problem returns,
then I'll know it wasn't the circuit breaker.
Unlike some other folks, I have no problem with being wrong. If the
problem reoccurs, I'll let you know.

I think he meant because of cooler weather, you will think it is cured.


Herring was an injineeeear but doesn't know anything about electricity?

Goodandplenty, goodandplenty, goodandplenty. WOOOOO- Wooooooo!

Yep, he was an engineer, alright.

Holy shit!
 

On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:51:59 -0400, jim wrote:

John H. wrote:
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:54:53 -0400, "Raphael"
wrote:

"John H." wrote in message
...
Gone four days and back to 853 messages. Over 300 from one individual.

Had a great time at Virginia Beach. Saw lots of boats. Will post pictures
of some when I get the chance.

Air conditioner kept popping the circuit breaker when the temp was
hovering
around 95 yesterday.

Anyone know anything about air conditioners?
--
John H.
Seems to me that when you first had this problem we talked about undersized
extension cords, undersized house wiring, defective breaker in RV, and low
voltage. As I recall, your AC started working and the issue was dropped.
Someone said head pressure will increase as ambient temp increases. That's
true. So now you have at least 5 potential reasons why you are popping the
breaker in the RV. The reason the breaker popped at the campground may be
different than why it popped at your house, but let's assume the reason is
the same.

I think I have laid out the situation properly. If not, correct me.

I know there are at least 4 or 5 guys here that would be able to put you on
the right track.

Would you like some help to resolve the problem?



The problem may have been due to the heat, but I don't remember the
temperature when I first had the problem. Most folks thought the problem
then was caused by having the trailer connected to house wiring (20 amp).
But this time I was connected to 30 amp. I'm thinking that outside temp may
be the common theme to both problems.

Sure!

John,
A 20 amp circuit when properly installed can handle a 20 amp load, and
a 30 amp circuit can handle a 30 amp load. That doesn't say the source
is providing proper frequency or voltage. What we are thinking here is a
voltage sag for various reasons, or short cycle might have caused higher
current draw due to not enough time for excessive head pressure to bleed
off between cycles. Your AC unit may or may not have built in short
cycle protection or it might not be working. You can test this by
running the AC and quickly shutting it of then on again. There should be
a 3 to 5 minute delay before the compressor starts again. The conditions
that precipitated your failures may not be easy for your dealer to
replicate. He may have to ask you to leave your rig at his service
department for an extended period for troubleshooting, and even then he
might not see the problem if it is caused by a power source.
If I were in your shoes I would take the time to learn about AC wiring
and problem solving. Also an overview of how the air conditioner works
would help you a lot.

Jim/Raphael

The manual tells me to get it serviced on an annual basis, and that's about
it. There is no information on wiring, etc, except for the installation
instructions. Apparently, Dometic, which makes just about everything for
travel trailers, doesn't want anyone other than itself messing with the
innards of the AC. I did check the coils and filters, but they've been used
hardly at all and were very clean.

I understand about the voltage variances. I'll take a multimeter next time
I go out. I agree that the dealer won't be able to replicate the
conditions. They will check that the output is 20 degrees less than the
input. If that is true, then it passes and no further checks are made. I'm
thinking the trip to the dealer's would be a waste of gas.

I just tried running the AC, turning it off, and then back on. The
compressor did not delay in starting. So apparently the short cycle
protection is non existent or not working.

Tomorrow I'll give the Dometic folks a call and see what they have to say.

Thanks for the feedback, Jim.
--
John H.