On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote:

All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore.


"TJ" wrote in message
...
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is
generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the glaze,
so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle
engines?

I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check.

Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum.

Casady

Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A
"plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote:

All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore.


"TJ" wrote in message
.. .
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is
generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the
glaze,
so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle
engines?

I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check.

Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum.

Casady

Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A
"plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long.

I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:46 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote:

All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore.


"TJ" wrote in message
. ..
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is
generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the
glaze,
so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle
engines?

I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check.

Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum.

Casady

Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A
"plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long.

I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.


I think you are wrong about that, as well.

The cylinder bore was silicon in early models and they later switched
to iron sleeves. They had additional woes due to the iron head mated
to the aluminum block.

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...



I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.


I think you are correct.

Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on
the Rockwell scale very close to steel.

Eisboch

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:46 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote:

All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore.


"TJ" wrote in message
.. .
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is
generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the
glaze,
so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle
engines?

I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check.

Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum.

Casady

Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A
"plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long.

I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.


I think you are wrong about that, as well.

The cylinder bore was silicon in early models and they later switched
to iron sleeves. They had additional woes due to the iron head mated
to the aluminum block.




Was a high silicon content aluminum. Had to be injection molded and cooled
quickly or the silicon would precipitate out of the aluminum and leave a
soft aluminum surface. The problem was defective head gaskets. They were
porous.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...



I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.


I think you are correct.

Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on
the Rockwell scale very close to steel.

Eisboch


See my other reply regards the silicon content.

"Eisboch" wrote in message
...

"Calif Bill" wrote in message
m...



I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.


I think you are correct.

Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on
the Rockwell scale very close to steel.

Eisboch



Further on this: (I looked it up because I was curious) .....

The original Vega block was a cast aluminum alloy, called 390, that was
16-18% Silicon, 4-4.5% Copper and the rest, pure aluminum.
It had no cast iron cylinder liners. The Si content increased wear
resistance by allowing primary crystals of Si to precipitate out of the
aluminum.

This was all part of a general industry driven evolution of the use of
aluminum as new alloys were developed and applications were being tried.

It's also one of the reasons I've never been a big GM fan. It seems like
they, more so than the other manufacturers, have a history of experimenting
with things, like metallurgy in this case, using their customer's cars as
the guinea pig test beds.

In the case of the Vega, it certainly was a flop.


Eisboch

On Sep 11, 12:50*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...







"Calif Bill" wrote in message
om...

I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.

I think you are correct.

Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on
the Rockwell scale very close to steel.

Eisboch

Further on this: *(I looked it up because I was curious) .....

The original Vega block was a cast aluminum alloy, called 390, that was
16-18% Silicon, 4-4.5% Copper and the rest, pure aluminum.
It had no cast iron cylinder liners. *The Si content increased wear
resistance by allowing primary crystals of Si to precipitate out of the
aluminum.

This was all part of a general industry driven evolution of the use of
aluminum as new alloys were developed and applications were being tried.

It's also one of the reasons I've never been a big GM fan. * It seems like
they, more so than the other manufacturers, have a history of experimenting
with things, like metallurgy in this case, using their customer's cars as
the guinea pig test beds.

In the case of the Vega, it certainly was a flop.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yeah, they public becomes the lab rat, and yes, gm was/is guilty.

when they put the steel liners in that vega engine, they made a good
engine... finally.

But it lasted about a year or so and got ditched because the pubic was
sick of their crap.

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 22:40:50 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:14:46 -0700, "Calif Bill"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:32:22 GMT, (Richard
Casady) wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:33:28 -0400, "Lost In Space/Woodchuck"
wrote:

All depends if it's a steel, chrome, nicksil, or nicom cylinder bore.


"TJ" wrote in message
. ..
I know that when new rings are installed in 4-cycle engines that it is
generally recommended that the cylinder walls be honed to remove the
glaze,
so the the new rings will seat properly. Is the same true of 2-cycle
engines?

I expect it is, but I just thought I'd check.

Most cars are plain cast iron: most outboards are plain aluminum.

Casady

Most aluminum cylinders have a sleeve of another, harder material. A
"plain aluminum" cylinder wouldn't live very long.

I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.


I think you are wrong about that, as well.

The cylinder bore was silicon in early models and they later switched
to iron sleeves. They had additional woes due to the iron head mated
to the aluminum block.




Was a high silicon content aluminum. Had to be injection molded and cooled
quickly or the silicon would precipitate out of the aluminum and leave a
soft aluminum surface. The problem was defective head gaskets. They were
porous.


Nope. The cylinders got etched leaving a silicon bore. The problem
with the head gaskets was the different expansion and contraction
rates of the iron head on the alumninum block. No gasket in the world
could make up for that, as they found out.

On Sep 11, 1:50*am, "Eisboch" wrote:
"Eisboch" wrote in message

...







"Calif Bill" wrote in message
om...

I think the only "aluminum" cylinder was the Chevy Vega.

I think you are correct.

Aluminum can be hard anodized however, resulting in a surface hardness on
the Rockwell scale very close to steel.

Eisboch

Further on this: *(I looked it up because I was curious) .....

The original Vega block was a cast aluminum alloy, called 390, that was
16-18% Silicon, 4-4.5% Copper and the rest, pure aluminum.
It had no cast iron cylinder liners. *The Si content increased wear
resistance by allowing primary crystals of Si to precipitate out of the
aluminum.

This was all part of a general industry driven evolution of the use of
aluminum as new alloys were developed and applications were being tried.

It's also one of the reasons I've never been a big GM fan. * It seems like
they, more so than the other manufacturers, have a history of experimenting
with things, like metallurgy in this case, using their customer's cars as
the guinea pig test beds.

In the case of the Vega, it certainly was a flop.

Eisboch- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'll tell ya something about the Vega and Pinto. Although they were
both pieces of crap, it was the start of new technology that produced
smaller power plants that had decent weight to power ratios. A lot of
the technology from those days drove what's in today's vehicles.